HL Deb 10 March 1953 vol 180 cc1139-41
LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Viscount the Deputy Leader of the House a Question. In view of the slight discussion which we had last night, I should like to know how far he would like the House to proceed to-day with the Committee stage of the Transport Bill.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (VISCOUNT SWINTON)

My Lords, by this evening we shall have got to "half term," so to speak, and the reasonable thing, I suppose, having regard to the agreed term, would be that we should try to complete half the Amendments. That would take us to the end of Clause 15. I think that perhaps the Leader of the Opposition could guide me a little in this matter. I should like to apportion the time in the way which is most convenient. If he thinks we should take less time over what I may call the second half of the Amendments, that is, from number 65 to the end—that is to number 122 (though there are, in fact, more than that because there are some sub-Amendments)—I should be content with getting to the end of, say, Clause 14. But I am not quite sure how much time the Opposition would wish to occupy over how much of the Bill.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I am grateful to the Deputy Leader for his statement. I would point out, however, that the most contentious parts of this Bill are in the earlier clauses, and it was almost certain that we should spend more time upon those than upon the Amendments that come later in the Bill. I think, therefore, that when we have passed Clauses 14, 15 and 16, it ought to be well within our capacity to complete the Committee stage of the Bill by the end of the agreed period. But, of course, The best-laid schemes o' mice and men Gang aft a-gley. However, we will do our best. On the other hand, the Opposition are very keen that proper attention should be given to Clauses 14 and 15, because they deal with the railway issues. They also deal with issues which relate to Scotland, and it is probable that we shall spend a good deal of time in discussing them. Therefore, what I have said about the remaining Amendments to the Bill stands—subject to the qualification that we may spend a good deal of time on the railway clauses. I therefore suggest, for the consideration of the Deputy Leader of the House, that we go to the end of Clause 13 to-day and we start to-morrow completely afresh with the railway clauses. That, I think, would meet our convenience and, from the public point of view, might be admirable.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, I think that if the noble Lord, Lord Bilsland, were here, he would raise this point. I agree with the noble Lord who has just spoken that the railway clauses of this Bill ought to be started afresh and taken separately. In Clause 15 there is a vital Amendment affecting Scotland down in the name of my noble friends Lord Bilsland and Lord Fairfax of Cameron. The noble Lord said just now that the earlier clauses which are to be discussed are the contentious ones but whether or not this Amendment proves to be contentious, it is certainly one which Scotland hopes will be given great consideration. Therefore, I hope the noble Viscount will agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, has said and will stop to-day at Clause 13.

VISCOUNT SWINTON

My Lords, what the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, has just said makes me a little anxious, because he apparently wishes to be lengthy and contentious over the second half of the Bill, whereas the Leader of the Opposition was hoping that we could be relatively short over the second half of the Bill. I agree that Clauses 14 and 15 are important clauses and on the general understanding that we get on as far as we can to-day and take Clauses 14 and 15 to-morrow, so that we may get far enough on to make it quite sure that we can complete the Bill in decent time on Thursday. I should be quite ready to fall in with the general view of the House—if it is the general wish all round—that we should finish Clause 13 to-day and start Clause 14 to-morrow. We must remember that we have to pass the Royal Titles Bill, which is more than a formality. I do not propose to make a very long speech on it, but I am sure the Leader of the Opposition will speak, and also, presumably the noble Viscount the Leader of the Liberal Party. At any rate, it will take a little time and we must take that into account. But I think the general feeling of the House is that it would be a good thing to make up our minds to adjourn to-night when we get to the end of Clause 13.