§ 3.28 p.m.
§ An Amendment reported (according to Order).
§ Clause 12 [Provisions with respect to transport of certain pupils]:
LORD PAKENHAMMy Lords, I hope that I am in order in raising a point which arises from the Amendment to Clause 12 in the name of the noble Earl, 18 Lord Iddesleigh, who is not with us to-day. I cannot say that I am speaking with the full authority of the noble Earl, because he is rather out of touch with things at the moment, as he is enjoying a well-earned holiday. However, I believe that I should be expressing his point of view, and certainly that of other noble Lords, if I asked t le noble Earl, Lord De La Warr, whether he can give us an assurance on the lines of the Amendment which is down in the name of the noble Earl. That would be a general assurance which, in effect, would say that nothing in Clause 12 shall diminish the already existing duties of local education authorities. But, in addition, should like to refer to the point we discussed on Committee stage in relation to an Amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Jessel, and accepted by the noble Earl, Lord De La Warr. May I ask the noble Earl whether we may take it that the phrase "reasonable needs of the pupils," which appears in Clause 12 (1) (b), means not oily reasonable needs in theory but also reasonable needs in practice?—I think that is perhaps the simplest way of putting the question.
§ THE POSTMASTER GENERAL (EARL DE LA WARR)My Lords, I gladly take this opportunity of trying to reassure the noble Lord about what is concerning him. On a matter like this it is only natural that he should want to be quite sure that no powers are being taken away from the local education authorities. All I can really do is to repeat the assurance that I gave in introducing the Bill, when I said that Clause 12 should make it clear that this new clause neither removes nor adds to the powers and duties in regard to the provision of free transport. That power already exists under Section 55 of the 1944 Act, and is not: in any way affected by this new clause. This simply gives the authorities a new power, in relation to pupils not covered by the arrangements under that section, which the authorities can use or not use, at their discretion. I would also take this opportunity of reassuring the noble Lord on the other point he raised. My right honourable friend the Minister is fully satisfied, after careful discussion with her advisers, and particularly her drafting advisers, that these words, "which meet the reasonable needs of the pupils" will, in fact, cover what the noble Lord has 19 in mind. In any event, this will have to be interpreted in a circular to the local education authorities, and my right honourable friend authorises me to say that she will give special attention to this matter in preparing that circular.
LORD PAKENHAMMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for what he has said, particularly, perhaps, for the final words.