HL Deb 28 January 1953 vol 180 cc88-90

6.4 p.m.

THE EARL OF LUCAN rose to move, That the Great Ouse River Board (Old West Internal Drainage District) Order, 1952, a copy of which was laid before this House on the 4th December, 1952, be annulled. The noble Earl said: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Milner, I beg to move the annulment of this Order. The subject matter of the Order is an alteration in the area of art internal drainage district. The Cambridgeshire County Council have taken objection to this by Petition. A brief glance at some of the documents in the case shows that it is a highly technical matter. It involves the evidence of experts and the examination of maps, and it is, consequently, a case unsuited for debate and discussion in this House. In my submission it is a matter which can more properly be considered by a Joint Committee under the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act, 1945. However, before this can be done, in a case of this kind where a Petition of general objection has been presented, it is necessary formally to move the annulment of the Order. YourLordships will have noticed that there is an Amendment on the Paper in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Wolverton, and the purpose of my Motion is to clear the way for this Amendment. I beg to move.

Moved, That the Great Ouse River Board (Old West Internal Drainage District) Order, 1952, a copy of which was laid before this House on the 4th December, 1952, be annulled.—(The Earl of Lucan.)

LORD WOLVERTON moved, as an Amendment to the Motion, to leave out all words after "That" and to insert:

"the Petition of the Cambridgeshire County Council presented to this House against the Great Ouse River Board (Old West Internal Drainage District) Order. 1952, be referred to a Joint Committee of both Houses, in accordance with the provisions of Section 4 of the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act, 1945."

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move the Amendment which stands in my name on the Order Paper. Having studied the matter very closely I feel that it is one which cannot be argued very successfully across the Floor of this House. Moreover, as the noble Earl, Lord Lucan, said, it is a highly technical matter. Therefore, I hope the House will agree with this proposal that the matter should be referred to a Joint Committee. I hope also that Her Majesty's Government will support the idea. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Leave out from ("That") to the end and insert ("the Petition of the Cambridgeshire County Council presented to this House against the Great Ouse River Board (Old West Internal Drainage District) Order, 1952, be referred to a Joint Committee of both Houses, in accordance with the provisions of Section 4 of the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act, 1945.")—(Lord Wolverton.)

6.8 p.m.

EARL JOWITT

My Lords, I should like to support the Amendment. It is largely a technical matter. I think the principle under the Land Drainage Act is that land which pays drainage rates is land which receives benefit, or at any rate land which avoids risk. The problem is that the Act contains no definition. How does one know whether any particular land does receive benefit or does avoid risks? One would have thought that that ought to be considered on the merits of each particular case. The practice has grown up, apparently, since 1933, and it was approved by the Minister of that date, of having some kind of rule of thumb by which this is done in accordance with what is known as the Medway Letter. That is an old practice, but I do not think it is desirable that we should interpolate a Ministerial rule of that sort. At any rate, a rule which was apparently good in 1933 has been proved by experience to be unscientific and out of date, and that is a matter which ought to be considered by the House, in order that we can have an original Act of Parliament unembellished by any Ministerial excrescences. For this reason I beg to support the Amendment that this matter be referred to a Joint Committee, in order that the whole matter may be gone into and considered in the light of the evidence and the maps, and all the rest.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW

My Lords, as has been already stated by both the noble Earl, Lord Lucan, and the noble Lord, Lord Wolverton, this is really a procedural matter, so that this subject can be dealt with by a Joint Committee of both Houses, rather than in the form in which it is being dealt with at the moment. Therefore, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Carrington, I am quite prepared to accept Lord Wolverton's Amendment to the Motion.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

On Question, Motion, as amended, agreed to: Ordered that a Message be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.