§ 5.8 p.m.
§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly:
§ [The LORD TERRINGTON in the Chair]
§ Clause 1 agreed to.
§ Clause 2:
§ Power to relax restrictions imposed by Penicillin Act, 1947
§ (2) The power of making regulations under this section shall be exercisable by the Minister of Health, the Secretary of State and the Minister of Health and Local Government for Northern Ireland, jointly, after consultation with the Medical Research Council and, in the case of regulations appearing to those Ministers' to concern agricultural matters, with the Agricultural Research Council.
§
LORD WEBB-JOHNSON moved to add to subsection (2):
and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.
The noble Lord said: I have put down this Amendment for two reasons. In the first place, I think it is desirable that there should be some provision to ensure that the health of livestock is considered, as well as the health of the community; and, secondly, because there was a little confusion during the debate on the Second Reading of the Bill in that the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, gave an assurance that there would be consultation with the Royal Veterinary College and that he understood that the veterinary surgeons would be called in on all agricultural matters of importance. The noble Earl was led into error by my noble friend Lord Amulree, who referred to the Royal Veterinary College. The institution to which he should have referred was the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. That is the body which is the ruling body of the profession and which sets the standards of professional education. It is, therefore, the
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body to which I refer in my Amendment, hoping that there will be either an acceptance of the Amendment or an assurance that they will be consulted on agricultural matters. I have nothing to add, except to emphasise once more that the Royal Veterinary College of London is just one of the veterinary schools of the country.
§ Amendment moved—
§ Page 2, line 24, after ("Council") insert ("and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons").—(Lord Webb-Johnson.)
§ LORD HADEN-GUESTI should just like to say that I think the wording of the Bill as it stands covers the point that my noble friend Lord Webb-Johnson wishes to have covered. The Bill sets up machinery for making regulations. Clause 2 (2) which we are now considering says:
The power of making regulations…shall be exercisable by the Minister of Health, the Secretary of State and the Minister of Health and Local Government for Northern Ireland, jointly, after consultation"—and these are the words I wish to emphasise—with the Medical Research Council and, in the case of regulations appearing to those Ministers to concern agricultural matters, with the Agricultural Research Council.I think that in that way it will be possible, to obtain through the Agricultural Research Council and the Medical Research Council, with the Royal Veterinary College, as clearly and as amply as necessary, all the information to which Lord Webb-Johnson refers.There is another reason for not adding to the constitution of this body to which I have just referred. If one other body, which has not such a wide range as the Agricultural Research Council, is admitted, it almost certainly opens the door, as it were, and invites people to suggest that there should also be other representatives of other bodies. And I think that that would be undesirable. I sincerely believe that the organisation proposed in the Bill is one which will cover all the necessities of the case and will enable the veterinary research authorities, through the Agricultural Research Council, in concert with the Medical Research Council, fully to present any points which are necessary from the standpoint of animal health.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWFirst of all, through the noble Lord, Lord Webb-Johnson, perhaps I may apologise to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, for giving them an improper title in my remarks on the Second Reading of this Bill. I had no intention of any discourtesy to them; it was merely my ignorance as a layman. I am afraid that I cannot accept the noble Lord's Amendment, largely for the reasons suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Haden-Guest—that we have already included these two bodies, the Medical Research Council and the Agricultural Research Council, both Committees of the Privy Council, and it would be unwise to widen the scope in this way. But I can give the noble Lord this assurance: that before any regulations are made, either under Clause 1 or Clause 2 of this Bill, my right honourable friend will have consultations with his colleague, the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, who in turn also undertakes to consult the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons on veterinary interest as a whole before any recommendations by him are made to his colleague, the Minister of Health. I hope that this will satisfy the noble Lord, and that he will not press his Amendment.
§ LORD WEBB-JOHNSONI am much obliged to the noble Earl for this declaration, which is so explicit that I can only accept it with gratitude and ask leave to withdraw my Amendment. I have had a little knowledge of assurances of this sort in the past, though not quite so explicit. When you quote the assurance to the Department concerned, and claim that the assurance has been given, then you are asked like Shylock, "Was it nominated in the Bond?" Was it in the Bill? In this case I am happy to receive the assurance, and I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause 2 agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.
§ Bill reported without amendment.