§ 3.41 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, with the permission of the House I will make a statement similar to that which has just been made by the Prime Minister in another place. It is the policy of Her Majesty's Government, to which my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has devoted sustained personal attention, to make, as opportunity affords, such changes in the organisation of Government Departments as will simplify administration and reduce costs. As a result of a recent review, some changes are already contemplated and others are under examination. It is proposed to amalgamate the Ministry of Pensions with the Ministry of National Insurance, as regards the award and payment of war pensions and allowances. 853 The new Ministry will be known as the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance. The medical treatment undertaken by the Ministry of Pensions (including the management of hospitals and the supply of artificial limbs, surgical appliances and invalid vehicles) will be transferred in England and Wales to the Ministry of Health, and in Scotland to the Department of Health for Scotland.
The greatest care will be taken to ensure that war pensioners and their dependants are not in any way adversely affected by these changes. An additional Parliamentary Secretary will be appointed to the new Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance to look after the pensions and allowances of war pensioners. The Central Advisory Committee on war pensions will continue to function. So far as medical treatment is concerned, such special facilities as war pensioners at present enjoy will be fully safeguarded and, in addition, the Minister of Health and the Secretary of State for Scotland will be able to call on the facilities of the whole National Health Service to ensure that the necessary treatment of war pensioners is given by the hospital best able to provide it. Arrangements will be made, in consultation with the Government of Northern Ireland, to meet the requirements of war pensioners resident in Northern Ireland.
A second change which is proposed is the amalgamation of the Ministries of Transport and Civil Aviation. This change has been under consideration for some time, and the way to it was paved by the appointment of the same Minister for the two Departments. There will continue to be two Parliamentary Secretaries, one dealing with Transport matters and one with Civil Aviation. The new Ministry will be known as the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation. The necessary Addresses will be moved in both Houses, with a view to all these changes being effected by Order in Council in the course of this year.
The regional organisation of Government Departments is still under examination to see whether economies could be secured without detriment to the standard of service afforded by the various regional offices. It is hoped to make a definite announcement before long. Consideration is also being given to reducing the 854 number of local offices throughout the country, including an extension of the practice whereby certain Government local offices undertake, on an agency basis, the work of other Government local offices.
§ 3.45 p.m.
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, we take note of this statement and express our thanks to the noble Viscount for informing us of the statement that has been made in another place. I do not desire to say anything about it, except this. I always feel, when one Ministry is amalgamated with another and comes under the larger whole, that, instead of being represented by its own Minister, it is represented by an Under-Secretary; and, whether we like that or not, it does suffer a certain loss of prestige. I am a little apprehensive about the decision in regard to the Ministry of Civil Aviation. However, we will certainly look into this matter and, as I have said, I am most grateful to the noble Viscount for informing us of what is proposed.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble and learned Earl for what he has said. If it is desired, at some later date, to have discussions on this matter, of course there will be an opportunity when the necessary Addresses are presented. We are very sensible of the importance, as regards both Ministries, of maintaining fully the important services which they render. There are, of course, two sides to this question. I appreciate what the Leader of the Opposition has said. On the other hand, as an old Minister he knows that a multiplication of Ministries does not necessarily mean that the particular Minister of a particular Department gets more consideration than what I may call a composite Minister. Sometimes it may well be that a Minister who combines two or three offices carries more weight. We can go back to Haldane's principle, that it is better not to proliferate individual Ministries but rather to concentrate—provided (and certainly I can give this assurance absolutely as regards Civil Aviation, which has a colossal future) that neither the Minister concerned nor the Government as a whole will allow all the great potentialities of that Ministry to suffer in any respect.
§ LORD LLEWELLINMy Lords, may I ask that when the Government are considering the question of this regional organisation they will bear in mind that before the war we got on very well without any of them? Nor did we have them for the first year of the war. They were brought into operation in order that, if the Central Government were cut off, there would be some representative of the Ministry in the region to carry on. I should like to know whether the Government will bear these facts in mind when they are considering and giving effect to these further amalgamations.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, we will certainly bear those and all other facts in mind. There is a great deal to be done in the provinces, and there again there is more than one aspect of that position. We have for three days been discussing, among other things, the question of the decentralisation of transport with a view to getting more efficient service on the spot. I am all for maximum economy, but on the whole it has paid us to have local offices where quick decisions can be taken, to the great convenience of those in the local areas and, I think, without undue expenditure. I have also found in practice that I was able, with great profit, to devolve the whole of my regional organisation on to other local offices on an agency basis. Provided that you have one good agency in a particular place, it can act, just as commercial agencies do, for quite a number of Departments. Bearing in mind what the noble Lord has said, and what I have said, I hope that we shall achieve maximum economy and, at the same time, efficiency, and meet local convenience.
§ 3.50 p.m.
§ LORD CHORLEYMy Lords, may I support what the noble Viscount has been saying? There is one very obvious exception to the case made by the noble Lord, Lord Llewellin, and that is the Ministry of Labour, which did build up, in the years before the war, a most efficient divisional organisation in the regions. And, as a result, it was one of the most efficiently conducted and valuable Ministries during the war years. I think there can be no question at all that, by and large, regional organisation of Departments has paid "hands down." I hope that the Government will not go too far 856 in their desire to economise by closing down these regional organisations.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONIt is not a case of closing down regional organisations. Certainly, so far as the Ministry of Labour are concerned, I entirely agree; and we have no intention, as I understand it, of interfering with the regional organisation of that admirable Department. But in practice I have found that you may have one or two good local organisations which are fully occupied but which, at the same time, with all their local connections, can perfectly well also take on an agency service there for Ministries which have not nearly as much to do but which, nevertheless, have their local job to do in the provinces.
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANWill the noble Viscount bear in mind how important it is that the amalgamation of the Ministry of Pensions with another Ministry should not be allowed to affect the claims for improvement in the rates of pensions which are now going forward?
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONCertainly those claims will not be affected in any way. I am not making any commitment about it, but certainly the claims will not be prejudiced one way or the other.
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANI am much obliged to the noble Viscount.