§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are now in a position to reply to the representations relating to the pensions of retired officers and the pensions of officers' widows made to the Minister of Defence on the 21st July last by a Parliamentary deputation consisting of members of both Houses drawn from both sides of their respective Houses and supported by representatives of the Officers' Pensions Society and the Officers' Association.]
§ THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNIS)My Lords, the two main claims urged by the deputation to which the noble Lord refers, and which I received on July 21 last, were these. First, they asked that rates of Service retired pay should be closely related to the current cost of living; in effect, that all officers who are in receipt of awards of retired pay under the codes introduced between 1919 and 1945 should be given the benefit of the higher rates introduced with effect from September 1, 1950. They asked, further, that all awards of retired pay should in future be revised in relation to changes made in the Service pay codes from time to time to take account of the cost of living. Secondly, the deputation asked that awards in issue to widows and children under what is known as the "ordinary" pensions scheme of the Services should be increased in relation to the present cost of living. These rates have basically remained unaltered for many years, although a number of their recipients received the general increases made in the successive Pensions Increase Acts. At 380 the same time, the deputation pressed for the abolition of a number of restrictive conditions attaching to awards under the "ordinary" pensions scheme.
As I promised the deputation, the Government have given these matters very careful consideration. In the result, they find themselves unable to give the benefit of the improvements in the 1950 retired pay and pensions code of the Services to those members of the Forces who retired on retired pay or were discharged to pension before September 1 of that year, when the new code came into effect. The financial commitment which might well follow from applying this principle of retrospection which the deputation claimed for Service retired pay and pensions is not one which previous Governments have felt able to accept or which the present Government consider can be undertaken in the present economic and financial position of this country.
On the second of the two claims made by the deputation, the Government are undertaking a detailed investigation of the present scheme, with full regard to the views which were expressed. I hope that before Parliament adjourns for the Christmas Recess I may be able to report to your Lordships on the progress we have made.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I thank the noble and gallant Earl for the full statement he has made, although, of course, the first part of the statement is highly unsatisfactory and is bound to cause great dissatisfaction to many gallant officers who served many years in His late Majesty's Forces, and will also probably be very detrimental to recruiting. As to the second part of the statement, relating to the widows, we are, of course, anxious that this matter shall be concluded as soon as possible, because they are living under conditions of extreme difficulty. May I ask the noble Earl whether the Government realise that the total pension that a penniless widow of an Army captain can receive is only £90 a year, just a few pounds more than a similar person would have received a hundred years ago? Do the Government really think that that is anything like what a widow should get in these days?
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNISMy Lords, no one has more sympathy than I have for the men who were once my Service colleagues and comrades, but, in 381 matters of this sort we must, of course, he guided by the financial aspect and considerations, especially at the present time. As regards the widows, I can assure the noble Lord that the Government are fully aware of the position of these widows in relation to their pensions. As I said just now, the whole matter is being carefully considered, and I hope to give your Lordships at the earliest possible moment an answer which will be satisfactory and fair.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask the noble and gallant Field-Marshal whether, in the consideration that is to be given to this matter, weight will be given to the fact that over the past hundred years the value of money has steadily fallen and, therefore, any pensions which are promised to persons who accept commissions to-day may be expected to fall in value by the time they are earned, if the people live to collect them. In those circumstances, does the noble Earl not think that this is a material point which ought to be brought to the attention of all people who are offered commissions in Her Majesty's Forces?
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNISMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that every consideration has been given, or is now being given, to this whole question of Service pensions. The last point he made is one which I think might well be considered.