§ 2.40 p.m.
§ Amendments reported (according to Order).
§ Clause 7:
§ Proceedings in disciplinary cases
§ 7.—(1) For the purpose of proceedings before the Disciplinary Committee under the last foregoing section the Committee may administer oaths, and any party to the proceedings may issue out writs of subpoena ad testificandum and duces tecum, but no person shall be compelled under any such writ to produce any document which he could not be compelled to produce on the trial of an action.
767§ THE EARL OF ONSLOW moved to omit subsection (1) The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is a drafting Amendment to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Nathan, on Committee stage. It ties up with Clause 11. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 4, leave out lines 11 to 23.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Earl for having acceded to the suggestion that was made.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 26, leave out ("any such proceedings as aforesaid") and insert ("proceedings before the Disciplinary Committee under the last foregoing section").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 11 [Restoration of name erased in a disciplinary case]:
§
Amendment moved—
Page 7, line 19, leave out ("subsection (2) of").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 7, leave out lines 21 to 26.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 13 [Transitional provisions]:
§
Amendment moved—
Page 8, line 27, leave out ("subsection (1) of section seven and").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 15:
§ Miscellaneous amendments relating to register
§ (5) No appeal shall lie under section nine of the Dentists Act, 1921, against any refusal or 768 failure to register a person's name in the register, being a refusal or failure to comply with a request made after the coming into force of this subsection.
§
THE EARL OF ONSLOW moved to add to subsection (5):
and no appeal shall lie under that section against the removal after the coming into force of this subsection of a person's name from the register on grounds other than those mentioned in the second paragraph of section thirteen of the Dentists Act. 1878
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is a drafting, Amendment to correct an omission in the Bill as it now stands. The matter has been discussed. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 11, line 7, at end insert the said words.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 11, line 10, leave out ("the General Dental Council, or the Disciplinary") and insert ("that").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 11, line 12, leave out ("subsection (2) of").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 16 [Registration in Commonwealth and foreign lists]:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, I do not know whether it is in order, but I have had correspondence with my noble friend Lord Selborne in regard to the Amendments he had tabled to this clause, and I have reason to believe that he may not move them. Perhaps that is the reason for his absence.
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, is it not a fact that the noble Earl is not moving them?
§ Clause 18:
§ Power of Council to create classes of ancillary dental workers
§ 18.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, the General Dental Council may make regulations for the establishment of classes of ancillary dental workers to undertake dental work of kinds prescribed by the regulations, 769 being dental work amounting to the practice of dentistry within the meaning of that expression as used in section one of the Dentists Act, 1921 (which prohibits the practice of dentistry by persons other than registered dentists).
§ (2) Regulations under this section may in particular make provision as respects any class so established—
- (a) for prescribing the qualifications for becoming a member of that class;
- (b) for prescribing the dental work which a member of that class may undertake and the conditions, if any, under which he may undertake it;
- (c) for the establishment of a roll or record for that class.
§
(3) The regulations shall be so framed as to secure—
(c) that the extraction of teeth by an ancillary dental worker as aforesaid is restricted to the extraction of deciduous teeth.
§
LORD TEVIOT moved to add to subsection (1):
Provided that nothing shall be done in the exercise of the powers conferred under this subsection which shall curtail the existing provisions for the training of dentists.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I am sure that you will all agree that we should like every patient to be dealt with by a fully qualified dental surgeon. If there is the slightest chance that the education of dental surgeons may be curtailed or in any way interfered with through the institution of ancillary dental workers, I feel that it is really only logical that this Amendment should be inserted at the end of Clause 18 (1). I hope my noble friend will accept it. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 13, line 29, at end insert the said proviso.—(Lord Teviot.)
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord. I hope he will not press this Amendment, because I am advised that, in point of fact, it is covered in Clause 18, page 14, line 6. It is better to have it there rather than here
§ LORD TEVIOTMy Lords, with great respect, is it on the same subject? Page 14, line 6, says:
(c) that the extraction of teeth by an ancillary dental worker as aforesaid is restricted to the extraction of deciduous teeth.My object is in regard to the education of the dental surgeon.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (LORD WOOLTON)My Lords, I hope I can satisfy the noble Lord. Under Clause 18, we will move an Amendment for the insertion of the following paragraph:
(c) that provisions in the regulations as to the arrangements to be made for training persons to become members of a class of ancillary dental workers do not materially impair the facilities for the training of dental students existing at the passing of this Act.I think that covers the. point.
§ LORD TEVIOTMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his explanation. That entirely covers my point. I did not include that in the wording to which the noble Earl referred. I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
THE EARL OF ONSLOW moved to add to subsection (2):
Provided that the regulations shall not permit a member of any class to undertake the extraction of teeth other than deciduous teeth.
The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is an Amendment moved to meet various points concerning the limitation of ancillary workers to the extraction of deciduous teeth. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 13, line 37, at end insert the said proviso.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, is the word "deciduous" really appropriate? These are teeth which come out once, and once only; they are first teeth. When you are talking about "first teeth," must you really use the word "deciduous"? Does not the word "deciduous" usually connote leaves which fall every year? It seems to me that this is a case where a simple English word might do.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, I am advised it is the correct word. As they fall every year for various children, they are deciduous.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 2, leave out ("extraction or").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
771
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 3, after ("teeth") insert ("or the extraction of deciduous teeth").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is an Amendment designed to meet the point raised on the Committee stage by the noble Lord, Lord Teviot. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, leave out lines 6 to 8 and insert—
(c) that provisions in the regulations as to the arrangements to be made for training persons to become members of a class of ancillary dental workers do not materially impair the facilities for the training of dental students existing at the passing of this Act."—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, leave out lines 9 to 15.—(The Earl Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ 2.50 p.m.
§
THE EARL OF ONSLOW moved, after subsection (5) to insert:
(6) If a member of a class of ancillary dental workers uses any title or description reasonably calculated to suggest that he possesses any status or qualification connected with dentistry other than a status or qualification which he in fact possesses and which is indicated by particulars entered in the roll or record of the class in respect of him, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds:
Provided that where the regulations do not provide for a roll or record of the class in which particulars of professional status and qualifications may be entered, this subsection shall have effect as if the words and which is indicated by particulars entered in the roll or record of the class in respect of him' were omitted."—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, this Amendment is also put down to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teviot, on the Committee stage, and I hope that it will satisfy him. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 22, at end insert the said subsection.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ LORD TEVIOTMy Lords, I did not think there were any other matters concerning myself, but I thank the noble Earl very much for his concession.
§ LORD WEBB-JOHNSONWould the noble Earl consider whether the use of the word "professional" a few lines from the end of the Amendment is quite appropriate?
THE EARL OF ONSLOWI am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing up that point. I gather that it is being discussed, and I am empowered to say that the Minister will give full consideration to it when the Bill goes through another place. There is no time to alter the Amendment in your Lordships' House.
§ EARL JOWITTBut there is time in our House, by putting down an Amendment on Third Reading. Why could not that be done?
THE EARL OF ONSLOWI am grateful to the noble and learned Earl, and if he will put an Amendment down we will consider it.
§ EARL JOWITTIt does not concern me at all.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 31, leave out from ("that") to ("if") in line 32 and insert ("the further regulations need not be framed in accordance with this subsection").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this Amendment is moved to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Nathan, on Committee stage. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 40, at beginning inset ("Where a roll or record is established for a class of ancillary dental workers").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this also is a redrafting Amendment, to meet a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Nathan, which was accepted in principle on the Committee stage. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 41, leave out from ("for") to ("unless") in line 44 and insert—
but the Privy Council shall not approve a draft of regulations under this section prescribing a fee under paragraph (a) of this subsection of an amount exceeding two pounds or a fee under paragraph (b) of this subsection of an amount exceeding one pound.")—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Earl.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 15, leave out lines 1 to 4.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 19 [Duty to make arrangements for experimental scheme]:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is a drafting Amendment, to meet a point raised on the Committee stage by the noble Lord, Lord Webb-Johnson. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 7, after second ("of") insert ("such").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 8, leave out from ("workers") to ("may") in line 9 and insert ("as is referred to in paragraph (b) of subsection (3) of the last foregoing section").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
774
§
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 36, leave out from ("kind") to end of line 38.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is a drafting Amendment, again to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Webb-Johnson, on the Committee stage. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page l6, line 4, at end insert ("such").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is another drafting Amendment, designed to tie up various clauses that we have dealt with already. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 16, line 5, leave out from ("class") to ("continue") in line 7 and insert ("as is referred to in subsection (1) of this section").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this again is consequential on an earlier Amendment, to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Nathan. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§ After Clause 19 insert the following new clause:
§ Provisions supplemental to two last foregoing sections
§ ".—(1) Section one of the Dentists Act, 1921, shall not operate to prevent a person doing anything which he is permitted to do by regulations under either of the two last foregoing sections, and the prohibition contained in that section on a person's holding himself out as practising or being prepared to practise dentistry shall not apply to a person for the time being permitted by such regulations to practise dentistry of any particular kind.
§ (2) The power of making regulations under either of the two last foregoing sections shall be exercisable by statutory instrument and the Statutory Instruments Act, 1946, shall have effect as if that power were a power conferred on a Minister of the Crown."—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 22 [Further restrictions on bodies corporate]:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this again is a consequential Amendment, to meet the noble Lord, Lord Webb-Johnson, on a point that he raised earlier. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 19, line 1, leave out from ("Council") to end of line 5.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 25 [Prohibition on practice of dentistry by laymen]:
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 22, leave out ("or").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is consequential, to meet a point raised by Lord Webb-Johnson on the Committee stage. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 22 at end insert ("or other dental appliances").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 24, leave out second ("or").— (The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 25, after ("teeth") insert ("or other dental appliances"—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 26, leave out the first ("or").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 20, line 26, after ("teeth") insert ("or other dental appliances"—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ THE EARL OF ONSLOW moved, after Clause 25 to insert the following new clause:
776§ Conditions under which students may undertake dental work
§ ".—(1) Subject to subsection (2) of this section a person who, after the coming into force of this section, undertakes dental work in the course of his studies shall be treated for the purposes of the Dentists Acts, 1878 to 1927, and this Act, as practising dentistry if he would have been treated for those purposes as practising dentistry if he had undertaken that work in the course of earning his livelihood.
§ (2) Dental work shall not be treated for the purposes of the said Acts as amounting to the practice of dentistry if it is undertaken—
- (a) by a person recognised by a dental authority as a student of dental surgery or of dentistry or by a person recognised by a medical authority as a medical student as part of a course of instruction approved by that authority for students of that kind or as part of an examination so approved, or
- (b) by any person as part of a course of instruction which he is following in order to qualify for membership of a class of ancillary dental workers or as part of examinations which must be passed in order to qualify for membership of a class of ancillary dental workers.
§ (3) No dental work which a person undertook before the coming into force of this section in the course of his studies shall be treated for the purposes of the said Acts as amounting to the practice of dentistry.
§ (4) In this section the expression medical authority' has the meaning assigned to it by section two of the Dentists Act, 1878."
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is really a redrafting Amendment, to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Webb-Johnson, which we accepted in principle on the Committee stage. It seeks merely to tidy up the Bill in the correct and most convenient wording. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
After Clause 25, insert the said new clause.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment moved—
§ After Clause 28 insert the following new clause:
§ Evidence in proceedings before Council and Disciplinary Committee
§ (".—(1) For the purpose of any proceedings under this Act before the General Dental Council or the Disciplinary Committee relating to the removal of a person's name from the register, or its restoration to the register, or relating to the withdrawal from a body corporate of the right to carry on the business of dentistry, the Council or Committee, as the 777 case may be, may administer oaths, and any party to the proceedings may issue out writs of subpoena ad testificandum and duces tecum, but no person shall be compelled under any such writ to produce any document which he could not be compelled to produce on the trial of an action.
§ (2) Section forty-nine of the Supreme Court of Judicature (Consolidation) Act, 1925 (which provides a special procedure for the issue of those writs so to be in force, throughout the United Kingdom) shall apply in relation to any such proceedings as aforesaid as it applies in relation to causes or matters in the High Court.")—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to. Clause:
§ Clause 30 [Interpretation]:
THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, this is a consequential Amendment, to tidy up the Bill and to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Williams, on the Committee stage. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 22, line 31, leave cut from ("means") to end of line 32 and insert—
("(a) in a case relating to the removal of a person's name from the register, or its restoration to the register, that person, and
(b) in a case relating to the withdrawal from a body corporate of a right to carry on the business of dentistry, that body corporate and any director of that body corporate, and
(c) in any case,").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 23, line 19, after ("register") insert ("or determinations to withdraw from bodies corporate the right to carry on the business of dentistry").—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Second Schedule [Enactments repealed]:
§
Amendment moved—
Page 29, line 40, leave out ("this repeal") and insert ("subsection (5) of section fifteen of this Act or the removal before that time of a person's name from the register on grounds other than those mentioned in the second paragraph of section thirteen of the Dentists Act, 1878.")—(The Earl of Onslow.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.