§ 2.37 p.m.
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (VISCOUNT SWINTON)My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend the Leader of the House I have an announcement to make about our future Business. On the Order Paper the Motion to debate Foreign Affairs, which stands in the name of the noble and learned Earl the Leader of the Opposition, is down for Wednesday, March 12. I understand that, to meet the convenience of the Leader of the Opposition, it has been arranged that that debate shall be postponed until the first convenient day, which I think is April 9. This change, of course, involves that the Motion standing in the name of the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, will also be postponed until the day on which the debate on Foreign Affairs is taken. I understand that that would be for the general convenience of the House, and my noble friend will be glad to accede to the course proposed.
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, so far as I am concerned we are in this position. The debate is due for Wednesday next. Yesterday in another place a White Paper was promised with regard to the whole position reached at Lisbon, which deals, of course, with major decisions. Our inquiries have revealed that it is not possible to say yet when that White Paper will be published, though I suppose that it will not be for some time. I felt that it was undesirable that we should have our debate on Foreign Affairs without knowing the full details which will be revealed in the White Paper. Therefore, with some reluctance, because of the urgency of the matter, I have agreed that we cannot have the debate on the date arranged, because there would be no time to consider the matter and take a line in 484 regard to it. That being so, I felt that for the convenience of the House the wiser course would be to postpone the Foreign Affairs debate until the earliest day possible, which, I understand, is April 9. This seemed to be the sensible course to follow. With regard to the Motion of the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, the noble Viscount can speak for himself; but I think that with regard to the Motion in my name it is inevitable that we should postpone our debate, however reluctantly, until April 9.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I was rather surprised at the way in which the noble Viscount, Lord Swinton, put this matter. He said that the postponement was to meet the convenience of noble Lords. So far as I am concerned, I asked leave of the House to postpone my Motion because of the failure of the Government to publish the White Paper on Lisbon. How can we discuss this matter unless we know what took place at Lisbon? I put down my Motion because, in my judgment, the rearming of Germany at this moment—other people of my age remember what happened ten or fifteen years ago—may be a very disastrous step. But I cannot tell for certain until we have the White Paper on the Lisbon meeting and know what has transpired. So far, we have not got it, and therefore I thought it better to postpone my Motion. I hope that we shall have the debate within a reasonable time. I am proud to sit here from day to day, but it is rather shocking that we should watch history marching past us while this House is debating trifles and that if we want to hear what is going on in the world we have to go down to another place and listen in the Peers' Gallery. With that comment, I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, I am really at a loss to know to what or whom this diatribe has been directed. We were perfectly prepared to take the debate on Foreign Affairs next Wednesday and to debate it with all the information at our disposal, and certainly with the information which was at the disposal of another place—and the noble Viscount says that it is only in another place that he can get any useful information. We should also be perfectly prepared, if it were so desired, to have a 485 further debate on the subject of Foreign Affairs. We have never been unwilling—and I am sure the noble and learned Earl the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition Chief Whip will bear me out—to arrange a debate at any time on any subject which the Leader of the Opposition or, indeed, the rank and file of the Opposition desire to raise. Therefore, I think it is most unreasonable that the noble Viscount should address us in those terms. What I do say—and apparently the noble Viscount agrees—is that it would be quite impossible to debate the Motion which he put down on the Order Paper, on the rearmament of Germany, without being able to debate it within the full scope of Foreign Affairs. If that Motion had not been withdrawn, then, so far from shirking a debate, my noble friend the Leader of the House would have felt it his duty to put down a Motion in his own name to debate the subject next Wednesday; but as it is (and the change was made at the request of the Opposition) that debate is to be taken, to meet the convenience of the Opposition, on April 9.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATECan the noble Viscount say when the White Paper will be available?
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONNo, not for certain. It will be produced as soon as possible. The first person who would complain if the White Paper was not complete would be the noble Viscount himself. He says he does not get any information; then, when we are preparing to produce a White Paper which will be a lengthy and complicated document containing the whole information, he asks, "Why cannot it be ready to-morrow morning?" Really, I think we are proceeding as rapidly—and, may I add, as successfully—in these matters as our predecessors did.