HL Deb 25 June 1952 vol 177 cc385-8

2.52 p.m.

THE EARL OF LUCAN

My Lords, I beg to ask Her Majesty's Government the Question of which I have given them private notice, which reads as follows: "To ask, whether Her Majesty's Government have any statement to make on the Report of the Committee on the Recognition of Departmental Classes of Staff in the Post Office, presided over by the noble Lord, Lord Terrington."

THE POSTMASTER GENERAL (EARL DE LA WARR)

My Lords, I have carefully considered the Report and am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Terrington, and the members of the Committee for their detailed examination of the problems set before them, and for the extremely able way in which they have presented all the complicated factors giving rise to those problems. Having carefully followed their arguments, however, and the comments furnished by the staff sides of the Post Office Whitley Councils and by interested staff associations, I am not willing to impose the recommendations of the Report. As Minister in charge of a Government Department I am most reluctant to become involved in questions on how unions should be organised—indeed, I see real objections to this in principle and serious dangers in practice. I should not be surprised if the trade union movement itself, on mature reflection, came to feel serious misgivings on these points. From the point of view of the Post Office staff as a whole, and of the public and trade unions generally, it is most desirable that a dispute of this kind should be settled by the staff themselves and not put to the Minister for decision.

I do not, therefore, propose to form a final view on the matter in present circumstances. I am convinced that yet further effort should first he made by the staff themselves to reach a settlement, whether on the lines recommended by the Terrington Committee or otherwise, before I am called upon to consider the matter further. Accordingly, I intend to suspend consideration until the early part of next year, in order to give the parties concerned the fullest possible opportunity to settle their own differences. Each have a responsibility not only to their members but to the public service generally, and I hope that the respective national executive committees will get together with the firm determination of reaching a mutually satisfactory arrangement. It will, of course, be appreciated that if this matter remains unresolved it will be necessary for me to consider carefully, in the light of the relevant factors, where the public interest lies, but I should by then have the advantage of knowing the outcome of any further discussions that will have taken place between the organisations.

There is one staff association which is in a quite different position from any other, and which I propose to recognise forthwith. This is the Telephone Sales Supervising Officers' Association, which claims to have in membership over 90 per cent. of the staff concerned. No other organisation is recognised or claims recognition for these grades, and the alternative to the recognition of this Association would therefore be to leave them without any recognised representation whatsoever, which would be quite unjustifiable. I should mention that in thus recognising this Association I am acting in accordance with the recommendation of the Terrington Committee.

THE EARL OF LUCAN

While thanking the noble Earl for his reply, from which we hear that he is suspending consideration of the greater part of the Report until the early part of next year, may I ask whether the noble Earl will assure the House that he has not completely rejected the main findings of the Committee?

EARL DE LA WARR

The noble Earl is quite correct. If the parties concerned fail to reach an agreed settlement and I am compelled to intervene, I shall certainly take into account all relevant considerations, including those put forward by the Terrington Committee.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, I am sure the noble Earl appreciates that we regard this as an important statement, which will need careful consideration, and we reserve our right to raise the matter again. May I say that I sympathise with the noble Earl in his difficulty in making up his mind about the recommendations contained in the Terrington Committee Report? At the same time, he will not be surprised if we have gathered the impression that the Government have no policy at all at the moment in regard to the recognition of staff organisations in the Post Office. May I ask the noble Earl this supplementary question? What does he propose to do if an association other than the Telephone Sales Supervising Officers' Association makes a claim for recognition before the beginning of next year? May I also ask him a further supplementary question? Have the staff associations concerned agreed to discuss this matter further because unless the large unions have agreed to discuss the matter with the small unions it would appear that in six months' time the noble Earl will find himself in exactly the same position as he is now.

EARL DE LA WARR

My Lords, I cannot help regretting, considering the length of time that this particular subject was before himself and his successors, that the noble Earl has taken this opportunity of accusing us of not being able to make up our minds. It is "on my plate" now only because the Government which preceded us were quite unable to make up their minds. I shall certainly take account of the questions that the noble Earl has asked me, but I should prefer at the moment to add nothing to my statement. I think no one knows better than the noble Earl what a very delicate situation we are trying to handle. I would ask the noble Earl not to press me further.

LORD STRABOLGI

Is there any other question upon which Her Majesty's Government have made up their minds?