§ 2.53 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBY had given notice that he would ask Her Majesty's Government. Whether they have noted the protests of certain Socialist Members of Parliament in this country against the arrest of Mr. Sachs, the Trades Union Leader in South Africa, by the direction of the Government of the Union of South Africa, and whether they do not consider these protests a serious attempt to intervene in matters concerning the internal policy of another Commonwealth country.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I rise on a point of order. I should like to draw the attention of the noble Marquess the Leader of the House to the next Question and to another Question on the Order Paper and to ask for his guidance on a matter of order. I have no complaint about the nature of these Questions, but they do not appear to me to be Parliamentary Questions at all. The first Question by the noble Lord, Lord Barnby, to-day asks the Government to express an opinion on a point which is not necessarily a matter for which they are responsible. The second Question by the noble Lord, Lord Vansittart, which is on the Order Paper for next week, asks whether it is legitimate to use the pulpit of the Anglican Church for the dissemination of political falsehoods. That also does not appear to me to be a Parliamentary inquiry. I have no complaint about these matters being raised, and they are proper subjects for discussion in this this House, but I submit to the noble Marquess the Leader of the House that 179 they are not entitled to receive the priority which goes with starring a Question.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I should have thought that quite frequently Questions are asked which involve the Government's expressing an opinion. I do not think that is ruled out by Parliamentary procedure. So far as the question of priority which is given by a Starred Question is concerned, I do not think the purpose of starring is really a matter of priority: it is to enable the questioner to receive a brief oral answer, I do not really think there is validity in the noble Viscount's criticism.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, the noble Marquess will observe that any one who wishes to ventilate a view, which is quite a proper thing to do in Parliament, can have that put down on any day that happens to be available by putting a star against the expression of his opinion and inviting the Government to say what they think about it.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, if the Question is not ruled out, it seems to me a perfectly proper thing to do, and no doubt the noble Viscount will take advantage of it in due course. Perhaps I may now answer the question on the Order Paper.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I now beg to ask the Question which stands in my name.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I assume that the noble Lord is referring to a letter addressed to the Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa by the Union of Democratic Control, signed by 122 members of both Houses of Parliament, including seven members of your Lordships' House, protesting against the action which has been taken against Mr. E. S. Sachs. The noble Lord is, of course, quite correct in saying that this is a flatter concerning the internal policy of the Union of South Africa.
LORD STRABOLGIMy Lords, as one of those who did not sign the letter, although I sit on these Benches, may ask the noble Marquess the Leader of the House whether it is not a traditional right and a custom of very old standing for members of both Houses of Parliament to protest against what they con- 180 sider injustice or oppression in any part of the world, and it has never been called in question in any way?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, this is really a question of custom and the proper conduct of our relations with other Empire countries. I would agree with the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, that it is inevitable that the Governments of individual members of the Commonwealth should from time to time take action in respect of their internal affairs which is antipathetic to certain sections of opinion in other Commonwealth countries. But I myself feel, and I would express this view to your Lordships, that it is better that we should not intervene in the internal affairs of other Commonwealth countries, as we should certainly not wish them to intervene in ours.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, whilst it is very proper that the Government of this country should not intervene in the affairs of the Government of an independent State, like the Union of South Africa, the noble Marquess would not suggest, I imagine, that those who may think that a certain policy is wicked and disastrous should not express their personal opinion on the matter.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, of course, it is open to everybody to express an opinion in a free country. But the fact remains that a communication sent by 122 Members of both Houses of Parliament is very likely to appear in another country to be Parliamentary intervention, or intervention by those who officially represent public opinion here, in the affairs of another Empire country. Apart from anything else, I do not think such interventions are calculated to assist the purposes which the signatories may have in mind. I do not think it is suitable that the members of one Parliament should seek to intervene in the affairs of another Parliament, however much they may object.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he suggests that people who believe in their hearts that something very wrong is being done, have some public duty not to express their feeling?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI do not suggest that they have a public 181 duty. I say only that they are unlikely to achieve the result they want, and I do not think it desirable for the maintenance of good relations with the countries of the Commonwealth. We should certainly resent it here if some action taken in our Parliament were objected to by 122 Members of the Union Parliament.
LORD STRABOLGIThat is exactly what has happened. During the Boer War we had protests from the Colonial Legislatures about certain matters.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYBut I do not think it was a very good plan.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of the reply to my original Question, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he has considered the opportuneness of making a statement which would make it clear that the Union of Democratic Control is representative of a very small part of public opinion in this country?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I do not think it would be suitable. I feel it is better that we should keep out of the matter altogether.