§ 3.46 p.m.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)My Lords, I am sure the House will understand if I interrupt the debate for only a few moments to make a statement similar to that which is being made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place with regard to some remarks that came from the Minister of Defence at a dinner at the Canada Club last night which have received publicity in the Press. This is the statement:
"I will give the House the full facts at once. Last night Lord Alexander, speaking impromptu at what he took to be a private gathering of the Canada Club, according to the reports which I have received and with which Lord Alexander agrees, said there were weaknesses in Korea one of which he did not like to mention in the House of Lords. When guests shouted, 'Why not?', he answered, 'Because it is a thing I was asked not to mention as a matter of secrecy. I should be very much happier if General Van Fleet had a little more reserve in his own hands. I think that if the Chinese attempt a full-scale offensive they will penetrate the front to a depth of some miles in some places. But I believe owing to the efficiency of the Eighth Army and their fire power they will be able to bring the offensive to a halt.'
"The word 'secrecy' which he used on the spur of the moment was no doubt unfortunately chosen. What he intended to imply was that his remarks might be liable to be misconstrued if said ill a public speech and not that they affected military security, which in my opinion they did not.
"When preparing his statement for the House of Lords, Lord Alexander took the special precaution of referring the principal points in what he proposed to say to General Omar Bradley. The General replied that he would prefer that no public reference should be made as to the strength of the reserves but that he did not dissent from the statement as an expression of 611 opinion. He thought that in its original form it might be misconstrued as implying a serious inadequacy of reserves. In making this point he said that naturally any commander would be happier to have larger reserves and to this extent the proposed statement was unexceptionable. In its original form it might be interpreted as implying that there was virtually no reserve, which was too bleak a picture.
"In consequence of this Lord Alexander omitted from his public speech in the House of Lords any reference to the reserves. But, speaking as he thought to a private gathering, off the record, he made the reference in the form I have read to the House—namely, 'I should be very much happier if General Van Fleet had a little more reserve in his own hands.'
"This statement seems to me to be perfectly harmless, and if it had been made in the House of Lords as part of Lord Alexander's official statement it would not, I believe, have attracted undue attention. The circumstances of the occasion, the setting of the remark and the use of the word 'secrecy,' have invested the incident with an air of mystery and significance which can only be removed by a full statement such as I have made.
"I may add that the mobile reserves of the Eighth Army in Korea have been substantially increased by the availability of the considerable forces which were used on Koje Island for the restoration of order in the prisoners-of-war camps there and, as Lord Alexander has said in the House of Lords and repeated in other words at the dinner, 'I believe that a full scale offensive by the enemy under present conditions can be held and that he will suffer terrific casualties. He may outmatch us in numbers of men, as he does considerably, but we are superior in fire power and mobility.'"
§ 3.52 p.m.
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Marquess for the statement he has just made. This House is a very generous Assembly, and even the youngest of us sometimes makes an indiscretion. I am sure the Minister of Defence will not mind my saying that it 612 was an indiscretion to talk to the Canada Club and reveal to them things that he did not reveal to us. It is always said that a good rider must have three falls. I daresay the same principle applies to a politician—he must have three indiscretions before we can entirely condemn him. The only aspect of the matter which worries me at all is this. We asked the noble Earl to go out and give us a plain and unvarnished account of what he really thought. To my mind, the gravity of the matter is this: he gave us his opinion subject to one qualification which, if I remember aright, related to the air. If it be the fact that he had at the back of his mind another qualification, of course it inevitably qualifies the impression which he gave to us. That, I think, is worrying. But so far as the indiscretion is concerned, I am sure that we shall all realise that we have made indiscretions before and we shall probably, if we continue in politics, do so again from time to time. I knew nothing about this matter until a few moments ago, and if it is necessary to refer to it on a further occasion I shall ask the liberty of the House to do so.
§ THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNIS)My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Earl for the remarks he has made. I should like to assure your Lordships that what I said about the reserves in no way alters my opinion about the strength of the front. May I enlarge on that point for a moment? I was thinking more in these terms. If the Chinese do launch a very strong offensive and break in, if General Van Fleet has a good, strong reserve in his hands he can gain a very decisive victory. Without a strong reserve in his hands, that is not so easy. I can assure your Lordships that the statement I made yesterday about the Korean campaign has not been altered in the slightest by what I have said since. What I said yesterday is my honest and true opinion.
§ LORD TEVIOTMy Lords, before we leave this subject, may I say that I was unable to be here to hear my noble friend's clear statement. The impression left on my mind very strongly indeed is that when these very momentous statements are made in either House, in view of the situation I should like the Government to 613 consider seriously the advisability of having the particular meeting at which these statements are made in secret session.
LORD STRABOLGIMy Lords, I hope the Government will think very carefully about that suggestion, and I hope they will decide against it. I have had experience of secret sessions, as has the noble Marquess. I can assure the noble Lord who has just spoken that you hear nothing in a secret session which you do not hear in open debate; and if you did, it would not be secret.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I do not wish to intervene in this discussion about secret sessions. I would only say that in certain circumstances secret sessions are sometimes inevitable, but I think they are unfortunate and should be avoided if possible.