Lords Sitting of 21 February 1952

Preamble
The House met at half past three of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers
The Lord Hayter—Took the Oath.
The Earl of Ilchester—Took the Oath.

KINGSTON-UPON-HULL CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
3.36 p.m.
Read 2a, and committed: the Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.

LEAMINGTON CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
Read 2a, and committed: the Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL BILL [H.L.]
Read 2a, and referred to the Examiners.
NOTTINGHAM CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
Read 2a, and committed: the Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.

MESSAGES FROM HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN
THE EARL OF CLARENDON: My Lords, I have the honour to present two Messages from Her Majesty the Queen, signed with her own hand. The Messages are as follows:
"I have received your Address praying that the Reserve and Auxiliary Forces (Training) Act Extension Order, 1952, be made in the form of the draft laid before Parliament.
"I will comply with your request."
"I have received your Address praying that the Summer Time Order, 1952, be made in the form of the draft laid
188
before Parliament, in pursuance of the provisions of Section 2 of the Summer Time Act, 1947.
"I will comply with your request."

INSURANCE CONTRACTS (WAR SETTLEMENT) BILL [H.L.]
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (VISCOUNT SWINTON): My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to provide for carrying into effect Agreements with certain foreign Governments with respect to contracts of insurance and reinsurance made by persons who subsequently became enemies; and to move that this Bill be read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.—(Viscount Swinton.)
On Question, Bill read 1a; and to be printed.

PNEUMOCONIOSIS AND BYSSINOSIS BENEFIT SCHEME, 1952
3.40 p.m.
THE EARL OF SELKIRK: My Lords, this scheme for which I am now seeking approval is made in pursuance of the Act which was passed by Parliament last December. I do not think I need go into details; the matter was fully discussed at that time. Briefly, however, its purpose is to put uncompensated men and their dependants in the same position as if they were entitled under Workmen's Compensation to disablement or death benefits. This draft instrument follows very closely the existing Workmen's Compensation Supplementation Scheme. It may seem rather long, but all the provisions have been repeated so that in reading it there need be no reference to some other document by those who have to work the scheme.
There are three points I should mention. One is that the scheme will be administered by the same administrative board as that which deals with the Workmen's Compensation Supplementation Scheme. The second is that applicants may demand an oral hearing before the Board, unless the Board are satisfied that this is unnecessary. The third is that the Board may vary their findings if, for certain reasons, it appears to them that their decision is erroneous. There is one more point, with regard to publicity. Announcements will be made

189
on the B.B.C. and in the local and national Press and a leaflet will be published. The administrative board, the National Coal Board and the union concerned are co-operating to provide details of persons who might be able to obtain benefit under the scheme. It is hoped that the Scheme, if approved to-day, will come into operation fourteen days from next Monday. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Pneumoconiosis and Byssinosis Benefit Scheme, 1952, as reported from the Special Orders Committee, be approved.—(The Earl of Selkirk.)
3.43 p.m.
EARL JOWITT: My Lords, I should not like this Order to pass without a word being said from these Benches—and that word a word of thanks. I congratulate the noble Earl on being fortunate enough to have the opportunity of introducing this measure, which is very close to my heart and which follows a series of measures on this topic. He may be sure, in introducing this measure, that he has our warmest sympathy and support.
LORD KERSHAW: My Lords, I cannot add anything to what has been said by my noble and learned Leader, but I would ask the noble Earl to impress upon the Minister that we still hope that he will try to extend the Order to those who are not totally incapable of work.
THE EARL OF SELKIRK: My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that the Minister has now under careful consideration the position of those who are partially disabled. I am very grateful to the noble and learned Earl, Lord Jowitt, for the words he has said.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

NATIONAL INSURANCE (INDUS TRIAL INJURIES) (COLLIERY WORKERS SUPPLEMENTARY SCHEME) AMENDMENT ORDER, 1952
THE EARL OF SELKIRK THE EARL OF SELKIRK moved, That the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) (Colliery Workers Supplementary Scheme) Amendment Order, 1952, as reported from the Special Orders Com-
190
mittee, be approved. The noble Earl said: My Lords, under the National Insurance Acts, the Minister is given power to approve and to help in administering schemes submitted to him jointly by any class of workers and their employers, adding to the benefits already given under the Insurance Acts. One such scheme has already been put into operation—that is, the Colliery Workers Industrial Injuries Supplementary Scheme. This scheme is a slight amendment to the one already in existence, and arises from the recommendations of the National Committee. It admits certain small classes of persons into the benefits of the scheme. They include certain check-weighers, pick-sharpeners, workmen's inspectors and one or two other classes.
There are two further small matters I might mention. One is the manner in which the benefits under the scheme will be assessed. This is always a complicated matter and I will describe it briefly. The supplement on disablement pension is calculated by reference to the pre-accident earnings compared with the post-accident earnings plus National Insurance benefit. The amendment will be this: that the benefits under National Insurance, except industrial injuries benefit payable in respect of any colliery accident or disease, will be excluded. Where it would benefit a man, he may take the national minimum, as laid down by the National Conciliation Board, as his pre-accident earnings. The other point is that, where a man is awarded damages at Common Law, the powers of the National Committee are made slightly wider to deal with the very few cases where a man refuses to refund the money. These are, very small additions to the structure of the social services of this country, which I am sure your Lordships will agree will always require re-adapting and re-aligning in the light of experience and the changing requirements of the community. I beg to move.
Moved, That the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) (Colliery Workers Supplementary Scheme) Amendment Order, 1952, as reported from the Special Orders Committee, be approved.—(The Earl of Selkirk.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

AGRICULTURE (SPECIAL DIREC TIONS) (MAXIMUM AREA OF PASTURE) EXTENSION OF PERIOD ORDER, 1951
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD CARRINGTON): My Lords, the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries has the power, under Section 95 of the Agriculture Act, 1947, to give directions as to the maximum area of land on any agricultural unit which may be maintained under pasture or herbage crops grown for commercial seed production. The purpose of this Order is to enable the Minister to continue exercising this power for a further year. The power is delegated to county agricultural executive committees, and I need hardly say that it is only when persuasion and the full resources of the advisory services have been tried, and have failed, that compulsion under this Order is resorted to. Since 1947, however, there has been an increase of about 500,000 acres in the area of land returned as permanent grass in England and Wales, although the need for producing as much food as possible from our land is greater now than it ever was. While most farmers are responding very readily, this Order will enable the county committees to deal with the few who are lagging behind in the drive for extra food production. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Agriculture (Special Directions) (Maximum Area of Pasture) Extension of Period Order, 1951, as reported from the Special Orders Committee, be approved.—(Lord Carrington.)
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL: My Lords, I am sure that this Order will be welcomed by everyone connected with agriculture. This power is even more necessary this year that it was last year, owing to the very large area of arable land which reverted to pasture last year and the imperative need to produce more crops. I should like to make one point. The effect of this power will depend on the use which is made of it by the county agricultural executive committees, who will exercise the power on behalf of the Minister. I hope that the Minister will see to it that the county agricultural executive committees issue directions in all cases where persuasion has failed to achieve the object, and that, in any case
192
where a direction is ignored or disregarded, these committees will be encouraged to take legal proceedings. I am quite sure that, if we want to avoid having to exercise compulsion—as we all do—the best way of achieving that is to make it absolutely plain to the farmers that, if necessary, these powers will be exercised to the full extent that the law permits.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

AGRICULTURE (MAXIMUM AREA OF PASTURE) (EXTENSION) (SCOTLAND) ORDER, 1951
LORD CARRINGTON: My Lords, this Order has exactly the same purpose as the last, and the circumstances in which it has been considered necessary are the same. The only difference is that this Order applies to Scotland and to the Secretary of State for Scotland. Unless noble Lords wish to discuss it in detail, I propose to move it as a formal matter. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Agriculture (Maximum Area of Pasture) (Extension) (Scotland) Order, 1951, as reported from the Special Orders Committee, be approved.—(Lord Carrington.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

NORTHERN IRELAND (FOYLE FISHERIES) BILL
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

CUSTOMS AND EXCISE BILL
VISCOUNT SWINTON: My Lords, I beg to move that the Commons Message asking that this Bill be committed to a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be now considered.
Moved, That the Commons Message be now considered.—(Viscount Swinton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
VISCOUNT SWINTON: My Lords, I beg to move that this House do concur in the Resolution communicated by the Commons yesterday, namely, That it is expedient that the Customs and Excise Bill be committed to a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to: a Message ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

GAS WORKS AT OXFORD
3.50 p.m.
VISCOUNT SIMON: My Lords, it most unfortunately happens that my noble friend Lord Halifax is prevented by temporary illness, not serious, I hope, from being here to-day to move the Resolution standing in his name on the Order Paper—namely, That this House regrets that the Southern Gas Board should attempt to revive a scheme for additional installations on land adjacent to the existing Gas Works at Oxford since such a scheme would inflict further grave injury on the amenities of Oxford, and has already been rejected by Parliament. He has asked me, in his inevitable absence, to take charge of the Resolution for him. I was prepared to move it and if know that other noble Lords in the House, including my noble friend Lord Samuel, were ready to support it. I think, too, that the noble Lord, Lord Kershaw, who was the Chairman of the Select Committee of this House which rejected the proposal to authorise the erection of further constructions, was prepared to speak.
However, it has been intimated quite recently that the noble Lord, Lord Leathers, who is the Minister who would intervene in the debate from the Government Bench, has a reassuring statement to make on this subject, on behalf of the Ministry of Fuel and Power. I understand that he is willing to make that statement forthwith. It seems to me that it would be a pity to launch what might be an extended debate on the present position if that position is about to be altered for the better by the statement which the noble Lord proposes to make. Therefore, if I may have your Lordships' permission, instead of moving the Motion I would ask the noble Lord, Lord Leathers, whether he would make this statement as though I were now addressing a Private Notice Question to him. Since I should not be in order if I spoke or argued again, I would ask leave to add one thing before Lord Leathers speaks: I shall, of course, make it my business at once to report the statement which he makes to us this afternoon to Lord Halifax, and I have no doubt that Lord Halifax will wish to consult his friends, and those who are acting with him, as to the future. In those circumstances, my Lords, I address to Lord Leathers the Question which I have in-
194
dicated, instead of moving the Resolution on the Order Paper.
3.53 p.m.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE CO-ORDINATION OF TRANSPORT, FUEL AND POWER (LORD LEATHERS): My Lords, first of all I should like to say how sorry I am to hear that, through indisposition, Lord Halifax is not able to be with us this afternoon. I know that he intended to move this Resolution, and I feel that the words I have to say may be a little contribution towards his speedy recovery. I think that they will be generally acceptable.
The Resolution standing on the Order Paper is concerned with a scheme for extending the Oxford Gas Works on land adjoining the existing Works in Oxford. The Southern Gas Board, which is the body responsible for providing Oxford with its gas supply, recently applied to the Oxford City Council, as the planning authority, for the necessary planning permission to proceed with this extension of their works. The Board's application was rejected by the Council. What I have now to tell your Lordships is that the Board have informed me that they have decided not to appeal against the decision of the Council and have so informed them. The scheme to which the Motion refers has therefore lapsed, and I suggest to your Lordships that in these circumstances little would be gained by debating the matter further.
VISCOUNT SIMON: My Lords, I am very glad to hear the statement which the noble Lord has made, and I am sure that others will share my satisfaction. It is satisfactory to hear that the decision of the Oxford City Council not to grant planning permission will not be further challenged. In those circumstances, while reserving, of course, all rights for a future occasion, I will say no more to-day.
3.56 p.m.
EARL JOWITT: My Lords, I should like to say how very happy I also am to hear the statement which has just been made by the noble Lord, Lord Leathers. Though not singled out for mention, I, too, was prepared to sneak on this matter, and indeed I have the misery of going away without delivering the speech upon which I had spent a lot of time. But that is a small matter. I do feel that all those who live at Oxford, those who have

195
associations with Oxford, and that much wider circle of people, whether with associations or not, who regard Oxford as a great national heritage, will be profoundly thankful to learn of the statement which the noble Lord has made. Though I do not ask him to add anything more to-day, because he has given us very good value for our money, I would express my own personal hope that the time will come when I hear the noble Lord say that even the existing works are to be moved from where they now stand to another site.
3.57 p.m.
VISCOUNT SAMUEL: My Lords, like the noble and learned Earl, Lord Jowitt, I too am suffering from an attack of arrested eloquence, but it is well worth bearing, in view of the most satisfactory character of the statement that has been made. Indeed, I rise only to say what I think should be said—namely, that all those who are interested in this matter are extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Leathers, for his intervention in it. His intervention, I think, has contributed very greatly to this satisfactory outcome.

THE GILLINGHAM BUS ACCIDENT
3.58 p.m.
LORD LEATHERS: My Lords, by leave of the House, I should like to make the following statement. In reply to a Private Notice Question on December 5 last, I informed your Lordships that His Majesty's Government proposed to hold an inquiry under Section 23 of the Road Traffic Act, 1930, into the tragic accident at Gillingham, in which a number of cadets were killed and injured. At that time we had no detailed information about the accident and could not tell what future developments there might be. Since then, as your Lordships will be aware, the driver of the motor bus concerned has been prosecuted on a charge of dangerous driving, and in the course of these proceedings all the circumstances of the accident have been thoroughly and impartially examined in public. The trial took place at the Central Criminal Court before a High Court Judge, sitting with a jury.
It has accordingly been necessary to reconsider the desirability of holding any further inquiry, in pursuance of the powers under Section 23 of the Act of
196
1930, into the cause of this accident. The cause has already been determined by the criminal proceedings brought against the driver. Apart from the human implications for all concerned, Her Majesty's Government have reached the conclusion that no useful purpose would be served by holding an administrative inquiry which could only cover the same ground as that already covered by judicial proceedings.
3.59 p.m.
EARL JOWITT: My Lords may I, by way of a supplementary question, ask the Secretary of State this? Though, of course, I fully understand that the fact that the driver has been prosecuted and tried does put the matter in a different light, and though in those circumstances I should not for a moment desire to hold the noble Lord to the undertaking which he gave, because the circumstances are now fresh. I feel that there are features in this case which still need consideration—at least, ministerial consideration. I hope that that need will not be lost sight of. First of all, there is the question of the very poor lighting of the place: that seems to me a matter which merits consideration. Secondly, I think there is a fundamental question as to whether it is not desirable that some rule should be promulgated to the effect that, where men or boys are marching along a road in the dark, they should take the precaution of showing a light behind them. I believe that that has for long been the practice of the Guards when they march to the Bank of England, and it seems to me an eminently sensible precaution. I do not know whether it can be enforced by rule or regulation, or how it should be done, but I very much hope that the Secretary of State will lend the great weight of his authority to seeing that that precaution is observed. I would commend this matter to the noble Lord and to the Minister for consideration of both those aspects. I hope we are not to understand that, merely because there is not to be a formal inquiry, this matter is not going to form the subject of close and careful ministerial consideration in one form or another.
LORD LEATHERS: My Lords, I should like to assure the House that all the points that have arisen throughout

197
these proceedings, including those which have been mentioned by the noble and learned Earl, will be thoroughly tested out in every possible way. I should also like to say that all three Service Departments have now issued instructions to the effect that troops marching on the road shall have look-out men posted at a suitable distance in front and rear and shall carry lanterns at night. These things are happening now. Very careful study will be made of all that emerges out of these inquiries and the trial, to see that everything which can be done will be done to ensure that there is no recurrence of such a sad happening.