§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask His Majesty's Government whether the decision to adopt the.280 rifle for the British Forces is to be taken to imply that no further progress can now be made in standardising weapons as between Great Britain, the British Commonwealth and the United States.]
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH)My Lords, the answer is in the negative. His Majesty's Government remain fully committed to the policy which they have pursued since the war of achieving the maximum practicable degree of standardisation not only between the three British Services but with the forces of friendly countries, including, of course, those of the British Commonwealth and the United States. This policy is being pursued not only by direct discussions with other countries concerned but also through the military standardisation agency of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.
376 His Majesty's Government greatly regret that it has not so far been possible to reach agreement on standardisation of the calibre of small arms and ammunition, but for reasons of operational efficiency the introduction of a new rifle to replace the obsolete.303 Lee Enfield can be delayed no longer. The Government are satisfied, after the most exhaustive tests, that the.280 rifle is by far the best available weapon and is greatly superior to any other rifle at present in service.
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANMy Lords, arising out of that reply, can the noble Viscount state whether attempts are still being made to achieve standardisation of the calibre of small arms, or have they ceased for the time being?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, attempts have not ceased and indeed are going on the whole time. If the noble Viscount would care to look at the very detailed answer to a supplementary question given by the Minister of Defence in another place on April 25, he will see the succession of events from which we hope that eventually we shall achieve general adherence to what is now, in our opinion, the best weapon available.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHI should like to have notice of that question. I cannot at the moment give any more information than the Minister of Defence has already given in the other place.
§ LORD LLEWELLINMy Lords, can the noble Viscount say whether it would not have been far better for supply purposes in the field, with armies working together, that we should have a rifle with a calibre in line with that of the arms of other members of the Atlantic Treaty Powers?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, when once we get rid of a rifle so obsolete that it was adopted just before the South African War, surely we should go in for what is, according to the experts, the best weapon available. This weapon has been approved militarily by the Standing Group of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, and I say, therefore, that in every respect it is satisfactory and 377 more up to date than a special calibre weapon for the purpose which the noble Lord quite rightly has in mind.
§ LORD LLEWELLINIs there any indication that the United States or the Canadians will go to the .280 rifle also?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHI am afraid I cannot add anything to what I have already said on that matter.
EARL BATHURSTMy Lords, there must be some very technical reasons why a rifle completely different from those of all other countries should be introduced. Would it be possible for the noble Viscount opposite to supply a list of those technical reasons? It may then be possible to judge whether they are sufficient in weight to make this change-over necessary. No details at all have been given except in another place, and those given there were, to say the least, of a somewhat hazy nature.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS BOROUGHNaturally I cannot add to the information which the Minister of Defence has given, but I should remind noble Lords who may not have seen what was said in another place that the conclusion arrived at by the Standing Group was that the adoption of this weapon would be most valuable. It doubles the rapidity of fire; it is many pounds lighter than the other weapon which has been in use, and it fits in far more conveniently with the modernised type of infantry and similar warfare.
§ LORD DE L'ISLE AND DUDLEYMy Lords, if the calibre of the rifle is to be altered, may I ask whether the Bren gun and similar weapons are to have an equivalent calibre, so that there shall not be two types of ammunition in the same unit?
§ LORD CHERWELLDoes the noble Viscount say that the advantages of the.280 rifle over the.300 rifle are so great that it is worth changing to a calibre different from that used by the Americans? The difficulties of supply are so enormous that there are a great many strong reasons against using two different calibres.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS BOROUGHI can assure the noble Lord that all these questions have been most carefully examined by the best expert opinion at the disposal of the Government, and that the decision has been taken after consultation with the N.A.T.O. countries, after testing by experts and military approval of the weapon by the experts of N.A.T.O.
§ LORD CHERWELLThe technical experts may well be right if they say that the.280 is better than the.303, or even the.300. The question is whether it is so much better that it justifies us in changing over to a calibre different from that of our Allies. Can the noble Viscount say whether the experts considered the difficulties of supplying ammunition of two different types in the field or whether they merely considered technical excellence? That is the point that really arises here.
LORD GIFFORDCould a rifle be made of similar design to the.280. but in a calibre to suit the Americans?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHWe do not think so.