§ 2.39 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask His Majesty's Government whether their attention has been drawn to a statement by the Chairman of the Oxfordshire County Council on January 2, 1951, regarding the employment of road patrols by plain-clothes policemen; and whether they have any statement to make with regard to it.]
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the statement in question received consider-able publicity, as has the experiment involving the use of plain-clothes motor patrols for the purpose of checking reckless and dangerous behaviour on the roads which is being undertaken in Oxfordshire. While the measures taken by the police to prevent and detect breaches of the law arc primarily the responsibility of chief officers of police and do not require Ministerial approval, in view of the present appalling toll of road casualties the Ministers concerned are in sympathy with any experiment such as this which has as its object the prevention of dangerous driving and the detection of that small minority of selfish and reckless motorists who at present disregard the law.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, while sympathising entirely with the object of the experiment, may I ask whether the attention of the Home Secretary has been drawn to the evidence which the Chief Constables' Association gave before the Alness Committee in 1938, in which they said that the only suggestion they could put forward at that time was for an increase in the police forces generally, to keep the men as much as possible on the roads, to make them as mobile as possible and to have them in uniform and in open cars so that they could be seen for great distances, and, further, that if the saloon type of car were used there ought to be an indication on the cars that they were police cars? The noble Lord will remember, no doubt, that the Alness Committee, having considered the whole question, turned down the suggestion which is now being tried out, and recommended the use of police officers in uniform. I should also like to ask the 4 noble Lord whether he does not think that it would be far better and more economical to have policemen on motor bicycles than to have them in cars. Motor cycles can get through traffic where a car would be held up.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I have no doubt that the facts taken by the noble Earl from the Report of the Alness Committee are accurate, but I would point out that much has taken place since 1938. It is hardly possible in these days of increased rearmament and shortage of manpower to increase the number of policemen who can patrol the roads. Those facts must be taken into grave consideration. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is looking upon this experiment with sympathy, and that sympathy is not of an idle character. To-day a meeting of chief constables is being held in London and my right honourable friend is consulting that body upon the matters raised.
THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDONMy Lords, arising out of that reply, surely the noble Lord is of opinion that two individual motor-cycle patrols in uniform could cover twice the area of two constables in a car, and therefore the question of man-power does not arise.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, both my right honourable friend and the chief constables concerned are fully aware of the matters mentioned. I would remind the noble Marquess, however, that his question hardly arises out of the original Question.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, I hope that the noble Lord realises that the experiment which the noble Earl is criticising is receiving great support in Oxfordshire and in the provincial Press, and, so far as can be judged, from public opinion.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to bear in mind that that view is not shared by the City of Oxford?