§ 3.40 p.m.
§ LORD SILKIN rose to ask His Majesty's Government: (1) What action is proposed to be taken to ensure that despite the increase in the number or proportion of houses and flats to be built under licence for sale, there should be no reduction in the number of houses and flats to let; (2) What action is proposed to be taken to ensure that houses and fiats built under licence for sale are not of a reduced standard of accommodation and construction; (3) What steps will be taken to provide that houses and flats built under licence for sale shall be allocated pari passu to those on the waiting lists of local authorities? The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. Although in form it is one question, there are really three questions. I think they are self-explanatory and there is little that I need to add by way of explanation. Your Lordships, particularly those of you who are interested in the housing question—and I am sure most of your Lordships are—will have gathered that these questions are preliminary to the debate on housing which will take place on January 30.
§ I should like to assure the noble Lord, Lord Woolton, whom we are glad to see here, even if we are not going to hear him to-day, that the debates on housing, of which I imagine there will be a considerable number from time to time, will be conducted in this House, so far as possible, in a non-controversial and nonpartisan spirit. I certainly feel that the housing problem is one which should not be made the plaything of politics. In the observations that I hope to make on January 30 I will do my best to carry out that precept, and I am sure noble Lords opposite will do the same. I have no doubt that we shall conduct our discussions on the basis of helpfulness, and of making any possible contribution we can to the problem. It is in that spirit that I put these questions.
§ The first of my three questions is a request for information as to how His Majesty's Government intend to ensure that there shall be no reduction in the number of houses and flats to let, in view of their policy of enabling a larger number of houses to be built for sale. The noble Lord will recognise the words I have used 882 as being in the Manifesto which was placed before the country. This is an attempt to find out exactly how the increase is going to be achieved. The second question concerns those houses which are to be built for sale. How is it to be secured that they are both of a proper construction (I believe the answer to that is to be found in National House Builders' Registration Council by-laws) and, more particularly, how is it proposed to ensure that they will provide suitable accommodation? I am not concerned whether houses are to be of the three-bedroom or two-bedroom type; I realise that that is a matter which local authorities will decide for themselves, on the basis of the accommodation that they need. But I want to ensure that, so far as possible, the general standard of housing, and, more particularly, that of houses which are being provided for sale, is not lowered in an attempt to provide the maximum number of houses.
§ In the last question I desire to know what are the Government's plans for securing that people who are in a position to buy a house will not receive preferential treatment over those whose needs may be greater but who are not in a position to buy. I believe that we are at one in holding that the real test for securing a house should be the applicant's need, and that those with the greatest need should have a prior claim. How is that principle to be implemented, so far as those houses which are to be built for sale are concerned? I hope that the noble Lord who is to reply understands the questions, and that he will be able to give us a satisfactory reply.
§ 3.44 p.m.
LORD LLOYDMy Lords, the noble Lord has asked me three questions. He has no doubt read the speech of my right honourable friend the Minister in another place only two days ago on the whole of this subject, and I am sure he will appreciate that I can add little to-day to what was then said. We are to have a housing debate initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, almost immediately after the House resumes, and we may then be able to give him more information than I am able to provide to-day. I appreciate the noble Lord's attitude towards this matter. This is a great national problem which, if possible, we want to solve together, and not in any spirit of Party politics. We will 883 certainly meet him half-way on his pledge.
As regards the first question, the noble Lord was anxious lest the alteration made by the Government in the permissible ratio between municipal and private building might result in there being fewer houses to let. As he rightly said, if that were the case it would be a serious matter. The first point I should like to make is that this alteration in ratio is purely permissive; there is nothing mandatory about it. The only thing that is mandatory is that local authorities must use at least half their building allocation for council houses. All that the Government have done, in point of fact, is to increase the area of the local authorities' discretion. We are believers in local government, and we believe that the local authorities probably know better than anybody else what goes on in their areas. We believe that they are responsible bodies—they are certainly democratic bodies—and we feel that we can trust them. All we have done is to give them a greater discretion. I can assure noble Lords opposite that there is no question of the Government putting any pressure on local authorities to build more private houses than they wish under the new ratio.
Then, again, the alteration in the ratio does not mean that the actual ratio built will, in fact, be one in two. In some areas no private licences may be asked for. In some none may be granted. In others the ratio may be one in ten, one in five, or one in three. In the past, when the ratio permitted was one private building licence in five municipal, the actual ratio was one in eight. In our opinion (this is not an exact mathematical calculation but is based on experience) on the new ratio the proportion of private licences will probably work out to something like one in four. In the last three years, out of a total of 170,000 houses completed each year something under 150,000 were built to let. At the present time there are 190,000 houses under construction in England and Wales. We hope and believe—in fact, we must do this—that the rate of completion can be speeded up. Even if we build the minimum in 1952 of 200,000 houses—and we hope we may build more—on the one-in-four ratio there will be just as many houses to let in 1952 as there were last year. If we manage to build more, there should be more houses to let 884 and more houses all round. The only way in which this could be prevented would be if either one of two things happened; first, if the ratio of private licences rose above one in four—which we think unlikely; or secondly, if the total completions fell below 200,000.
The second question asked by the noble Lord has relation to the general standard of houses built under private licence. As he pointed out, the local authorities have been asked in issuing licences to see that the specification and the amount of supervision exercised is equivalent to that laid down by the National House Builders' Registration Council. I am sure that noble Lords opposite must approve of that, because that was a body set up by Mr. Aneurin Bevan when he was Minister of Health. That is an admirable body, and it sets the minimum standard. Of course, the local authorities still control planning and the specification of these licences. We believe that we can trust the local authorities to continue to do this job. After all, they have been doing it for the last six years, and we see no reason why they should not carry on. We believe that that will ensure a good standard in general layout and accommodation.
The last question which the noble Lord asked was:
What steps will be taken to provide that houses and flats built under licence for sale shill be allocated pari passu to those on the waiting lists of local authorities?As the noble Lord knows, four conditions have to be satisfied before a licence is issued. First, the size is controlled; secondly, the price has to be approved by the local authorities; thirdly, the resale price is controlled and, fourthly—and this is perhaps the most important condition which the Minister has laid down—licences should not be issued for houses built for sale to unknown purchasers but should go only to persons witha housing need comparable to that served by houses built by the authority.Your Lordships may ask: What is comparable housing need? I feel that that is a thing which we cannot settle here. I believe that that must be settled on the merits of individual cases by those who are familiar with local circumstances. It is a thing which cannot be decided in Whitehall; it must be decided in the town hall. That is the method adopted by the late Government and, in my view, 885 that is one of the strongest arguments for giving the greatest possible discretion to the local authorities. They have points schemes based on needs, and we believe that we can trust them to see that this allocation is done fairly and that there is no unnecessary hardship anywhere.
§ 3.53 p.m.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, I can put a supplementary question only by leave of the House. I should like to thank the noble Lord for his full and frank answer. I reserve most of my comments for January 30, but I wish the noble Lord could say a little more about the standard of accommodation which will be provided by private enterprise. He spoke about the construction, and I think one can be satisfied that the houses will not be jerry-built. However, I wish that he could tell us a little more about the type of house. As we are to have so many frills removed, will it all be left entirely to the local authorities?
LORD LLOYDMy Lords, I have given the noble Lord a fairly full and comprehensive answer this afternoon, and I do not think I can go any further at this stage than I have already gone.