§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Pakenham.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly:
§ [The LORD TERRINGTON in the Chair]
§ Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.
§
VISCOUNT BRIDGEMAN moved, after Clause 2 to insert the following new clause:
. In Section 85 of the Army Act (which deals with continuance in the Service) for the words "or will within one year complete" there shall be substituted the words "or will within seven years complete.
§ The noble Viscount slid: The Amendment which stands in my name is prompted in general by a desire always to do anything we possibly can to encourage the recruiting or, in this case, the extension of service of Regular soldiers. I move this Amendment because under the, present Army Act it is not possible for a soldier to give notice to extend his service after twenty-two years, except by giving notice in the last year. As a result of that provision, we think that a certain number of useful soldiers are lost because, through having to wait so long a time, they decide to take up a civil career; whereas if they had been allowed longer in which to give notice valuable warrant officers and other N.C.Os. might be saved to the Army for a further period of useful service. It is for that reason that the Amendment which stands in my name has been tabled. The effect of it is to give a soldier on a term of service lasting for twenty-two years a full seven years from the fourteenth year onwards to decide whether or not be wishes to extend his service beyond twenty-two years.
§ This Amendment has been drafted in broad terms because we realise that a matter of this sort is not one which can be legislated for in detail in the Army Act, but must be left to administrative action by the War Office. Conditions in regard to soldiers extending their service vary from time to time and from one corps to another. They also vary in accordance with the fitness of the individual soldier. All we are proposing 1107 here is that it should be possible for the War Office to make regulations which by law they cannot do at present, whereby under suitable conditions a soldier can elect to extend his service within seven years of the termination of his engagement. I think I have made myself clear to the noble Lord opposite and I need not take up the time of the Committee any longer. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
After Clause 2, insert the said new Clause.—(Viscount Bridgeman.)
THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (LORD PAKENHAM)This proposed Amendment illustrates the constructive attitude that the noble Viscount exhibits towards all these matters. The Government are sympathetically inclined towards the objects of the noble Viscount's new clause. However, considerable research into the age and promotional structure of the various arms of the Service will have to go forward before any change of this nature can be put into practical effect, and as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State may wish to make other similar or consequential changes in the Army Act next year, I hope that the noble Viscount will be content with the assurance that I can give on behalf of my right honourable friend, that the intentions of his proposed new clause will be embodied in next year's Bill.
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANI thank the noble Lord opposite for the way in which he has met this Amendment. I realised that as the Army Bill has to become law by the end of this month if there is to be any Army at all, it would be difficult to go into the matter as fully as it deserves. In the circumstances, therefore, and in the light of the assurance given to me by the noble Lord, we shall look forward to seeing a reference to this matter in the Army Bill of next year; and in the meantime I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Clause 3:
§ Amendment of s. 91 as respects Northern Ireland
§ 3.—(1) In paragraph (a) of subsection (3) of section ninety-one of the Army Act (which, as respects soldiers with homes in Northern Ireland, provides for their reception into mental hospitals in Northern Ireland on the 1108 order of the Army Council or an officer deputed by that Council) for the words "by order direct that the soldier shall be received" there shall be substituted the words "apply for the soldier's reception."
§ (2) In subsection (4) of the said section ninety-one for the words "an order under paragraph (a) of subsection (3) of this section" there shall be substituted the words "an application under paragraph (a) of subsection (3) of this section," and for the words "as if it were a reception order" to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words "as if it were an application made under section seven of the Mental Health Act (Northern Ireland), 1948.".
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMAN moved to omit Clause 3. The noble Viscount said: It seems to me that here we have struck some slight anomaly in the arrangements for dealing with soldiers suffering under a mental disability who are to be admitted to mental institutions in Northern Ireland. The words which the Bill proposes to strike out provide that the Army Council shall direct that a soldier "shall be received," and so forth, into a mental institution. The new words provide only that the Army Council shall apply for the soldier's reception. It seems to me—though I may be wrong in this—that whereas under the old arrangement there was a certainty, so far as the War Office were concerned, that a mental soldier would be received in a proper institution, the only thing that is certain now is that the War Office can apply for such reception. You may "call up spirits from the vasty deep," but do they come when you call them? In other words, if the War Office have a mental soldier for disposal in Northern Ireland, and apply for that soldier's disposal, is it certain that the proper authorities in Northern Ireland—or indeed, elsewhere—will receive that soldier and give him proper attention? It would be a terrible thing if the War Office, who have the responsibility for dealing with sick soldiers, were not able to be absolutely certain that the soldier would be cared for by the Ministry of Health. Perhaps the noble Lord opposite can give an assurance on this matter or, at any rate, can say what is being done in this direction. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Leave out Clause 3.—(Viscount Bridgeman.)
LORD PAKENHAMI hope that I shall be able to reassure the noble Viscount to a considerable extent. I under- 1109 stand that he is not satisfied that an application on the part of the Army Council for the admission of a soldier of unsound mind to a mental hospital in Northern Ireland, necessarily means that a soldier would be admitted, because, he argues, there is no actual obligation on the hospital to do so. I and those who advise me do not think there is much in this point in practice, as the same arrangements have proved satisfactory in the United Kingdom, both for civilians and soldiers. However, if the noble Viscount wishes to press the matter and still considers it to be of importance, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is prepared to go into the point, in relation to both the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, with the Minister of Health and the Government of Northern Ireland. I may, however, be forgiven for pointing out to the noble Viscount, that there may be some reluctance to impose a statutory obligation of this kind on mental hospitals because it would mean discrimination between soldier and civilian. Moreover, in our view, it would have no practical effect, because if there was room a hospital would never refuse admittance to a soldier; and if there was not room, the existence of a statutory obligation would not create additional room for him to be admitted. In view of that answer, perhaps the noble Viscount may see his way to withdraw his Amendment.
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANI am grateful to the noble Lord opposite for having gone into the matter so carefully, and for the suggestion that it should be gone into still further. I am quite unable to argue against the noble Lord, that this point has any practical effect—I do not know. But I feel that a case has been made out for asking the noble Lord's right honourable friend to look into the matter a little further, and if that can be done I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.
LORD SALTOUNBefore the Committee leave this Amendment, I should like to ask the noble Lord whether he will consider this: that while a particular hospital may not always be able to find a bed, it is always possible to find a bed in an area.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
1110§ Clause 3 agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses and Schedules agreed to.
§ House resumed.
§ Bill reported without amendment.