HL Deb 30 November 1949 vol 165 cc1052-5

2.38 p.m.

LORD CALVERLEY

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands on the Order Paper in my name.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask His Majesty's Government whether the report is true that the Arts Council gave permission to the Aldwych Theatre producing an American play to dispense with the entertainments tax; whether prices were reduced; whether the author allowed the play to be produced without the payment of royalties, and whether the players performed on a non-profit basis.]

THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (LORD PAKENHAM)

The production in question is exempt from entertainments duty, but the exemption is not administered by the Arts Council but by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise. Those Commissioners are required by Section 8 of the Finance Act, 1946, to give exemption when they are satisfied that the entertainment is provided by a body which is not conducted or established for profit, and whose aims, objects and activities are partly educational. The matters referred to in the latter parts of the Question do not in themselves affect the title to exemption from duty, and the Commissioners therefore do not require information about them. I understand, however, that the prices of seats are about normal for a West End production.

LORD MANCROFT

Is it not a fact that, quite apart from the merits of this play, the profits arising therefrom have been applied to plays of a cultural nature which have been produced in other parts of London by this same firm of H. M. Tennent and which could not have been produced had there not been profits from this particular play? Was it not for this purpose that Parliament gave acquiescence to the original scheme? Am I not right in thinking that the excitement about A Street Car Named Desire is based on a misapprehension of the whole scheme?

LORD PAKENHAM

My Lords, I cannot speak for the "excitement" or "misapprehension." I do not know how they have arisen, but I can assure the noble Lord that the Customs and Excise Department are in a position to ensure that, in accordance with the constitution of the company, the profits are used for financing production, which involves great risk. Therefore, I assume that the noble Lord is substantially right—though whether the profits have already been applied, I am unable at the moment to say.

LORD VANSITTART

My Lords, is it claimed that this particular production has any cultural or educational value whatsoever?

LORD PAKENHAM

I speak for many Departments in this House—not always very successfully—but I cannot set myself up as a kind of Minister of Culture; therefore I cannot offer an opinion on the cultural value of this production. I must leave that to the noble Lord, who is himself a playwright and therefore, no doubt, particularly well qualified to form an opinion.

LORD VANSITTART

My Lords, I was not asking whether the claim was justified, but whether the claim had been made; and, if so, by whom?

LORD PAKENHAM

As has already been indicated, it is necessary only that the aims, objects and activities of the company concerned should be partly educational. It does not follow that every production must be of an educational character.

LORD CALVERLEY

My Lords, as the person who asked the original Question, I should like to ask His Majesty's Government categorically whether prices were reduced—which is one of the conditions which I assume the Treasury make; whether the author allowed the play to be produced without the payment of even one cent of royalties; and whether the players perform on a non-profit basis, which seems to be the condition under which the Treasury make this grant. I would further ask whether this concession should have been given to a sordid play in order that huge profits might be made and another London theatre subsidised, and whether the policy of His Majesty's Government is not that provincial England should have the benefits of a civic theatre and such-like, following the operation of this concession made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

LORD PAKENHAM

My Lords, from the fact that I did not express an opinion on the merits of this play I must not be thought on behalf of His Majesty's Government to acquiesce in any way in the reflections cast on the play. That is not my function, and no such implication must be read into my remarks. I do not think the noble Lord could have heard perfectly the first part of my answer. I said that exemption is given when the Commissioners are satisfied that the entertainment is provided by a body which is not conducted or established for profit, and whose aims, objects and activities are partly educational. The noble Lord has introduced certain statements of fact, I do not know whether true or false, but some of them sounded false to me.

LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, in view of what has happened here to-day, and previously in another place, may I ask whether the noble Lord does not consider that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should look into the whole position with regard to this matter of exempting plays of so-called cultural and educational value? Is it not obvious that the whole matter needs re-examination?

LORD PAKENHAM

My Lords, I cannot accept the view off-hand that something which has happened in the last few minutes shows that the whole matter requires re-examination. If that is so, it has escaped my notice. I can only say that I will pass on the remarks of the noble Lord and other speakers to my right honourable friend and, if the noble Lord cares to put down another Question, I will answer it as fully as I can.

LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, is not the noble Lord aware that there has been a great deal of agitation and public comment about this whole matter? It is not what has happened within the last few minutes; it has been going on for some weeks.

LORD CALVERLEY

My Lords, may I inflict another Supplementary Question upon the House? My noble friend—he is still my noble friend—said that normal charges were being demanded for admission. Therefore I take it that the entertainments tax was not given as a bonus to those frustrated women who attend these performances. Also, I ask whether this American author received not a dollar, not a cent, from the production costs, and whether the actresses and actors are performing on a non-profit basis.

LORD PAKENHAM

My Lords, I will look into everything that the noble Lord has raised.

LORD CHORLEY

Order, order!

LORD CALVERLEY

I will not sit down; I do not take my orders from the noble Lord, Lord Chorley. With the indulgence of the House and not with the indulgence of the noble Lord, Lord Chorley, perhaps I may be allowed to ask this question, seeing that there is this pronounced confusion: Will His Majesty's Government give us a White Paper telling us what the Arts Council do, especially for the promotion of art, not at these London theatres but in provincial England, which is the real England?

LORD PAKENHAM

If the noble Lord wants an answer, I can only tell him that I will lay all these matters before the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I hope the noble Lord will be satisfied with that for to-day.