HL Deb 17 May 1949 vol 162 cc782-5

Constitution of Standing Nurse-Training Committees

1. A standing nurse-training committee for a hospital area shall consist of such number of persons of each of the following classes as may be specified in the order constituting the committee, that is to say—

  1. (a) persons appointed by the Regional Hospital Board for the area;
  2. (b) persons appointed by Boards of Governors of teaching hospitals situated in the area;
  3. (c) persons appointed by the Council;
  4. (d) persons appointed by the Central Midwives Board;
  5. (e) persons appointed by the Minister after consultation with the local health authorities in the area;
  6. (f) persons appointed by the Minister after consultation with the local education authorities in the area; and
  7. (g) persons appointed by the Minister after consultation with such universities as he thinks fit;
and the said order may contain provisions with respect to the qualifications of members of the committee.

LORD LLEWELLIN moved, in paragraph 1, after "order" (where that word last occurs) to insert: shall provide that the majority of the committee shall be registered nurses and. The noble Lord said: We had some discussion about the Second Schedule on the Second Reading of the Bill. At the moment its provisions are extremely wide. It does not assign any proportions to the groups mentioned. Some people would like the proportions to be a third from those in groups (a) and (b), a third from those in groups (c) and (d), and a third from those in groups (e), (f) and (g) together. The main thing about these bodies to decide on the training of nurses is that a majority of their members should be members of the nursing profession. The corresponding body, in the case of doctors, is the British Medical Association, which, so far as I know, is comprised of all qualified doctors; in the case of the Bar, it is the Inns of Court authorities; and in the case of solicitors, it is the Law Society. I think the nurses should be assured of a majority on each of these regional nurse-training committees. I very much hope the Government will see fit to accept this Amendment, which is very mild but which seems completely justified from the nurses' point of view. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 14, line 19, after ("order") insert the said words.—(Lord Llewellin.)

LORD SHEPHERD

I have pleasure in saying that the Government accept the Amendment in principle, but they think the wording will require to be looked at. Perhaps we can have a talk about it between now and the Report stage.

LORD LLEWELLIN

I am obliged to the noble Lord. As he knows, I never pit myself against the Parliamentary draftsmen in selecting the right words or putting them in the right place. I thank the noble Lord very much for accepting the Amendment in principle, and any words that carry it out will be acceptable to me.

LORD LUKE

I should like to voice my pleasure at the acceptance of the principle of this Amendment, and I do not propose to move the next Amendment down in my name.

LORD LLEWELLIN

With the leave of the House, I will withdraw the Amendment on the assurance given by the noble Lord.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Second Schedule agreed to.

LORD LUKE moved, after the Second Schedule, to insert the following new Schedule:

"THE HOSPITAL GRANTS COMMITTEE

Constitution of the Hospital Grants Committee

A Hospital Grants Committee shall consist of such number of persons appointed by the Minister of each of the following classes, as may be specified in the order constituting the Committee, that is to say—

  1. (a) Persons selected from lists submitted by the Royal College of Nurses,
  2. (b) Persons selected from lists submitted by the Central Midwives Board,
  3. (c) Persons appointed after consultation with the Minister of Education, and
  4. (d) Persons appointed after consultation with such Universities as the Minister thinks fit,
and the said order may contain provisions with respect to the qualifications of members of the Committee."

The noble Lord said: The Amendment I now move appears on the Marshalled List of Amendments as being after the Third Schedule. I understand, however, it is more appropriate for it to be inserted after the Second Schedule. I need not say anything about this Amendment. I think the constitution of the hospital grants committee is well chosen, and I hope the Amendment will be acceptable to the Government. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— After the Second Schedule insert the said new Schedule.—(Lord Luke.)

LORD LLEWELLIN

This is consequential on our having earlier put in the Amendment to establish a hospital grants committee. If the Committee has decided—as it has, in principle—that we want a hospital grants committee, let us see that it has the best possible composition that can be arranged. I do not know whether the noble Lord, Lord Luke, is rigidly fixed to the categories of people included in the Amendment, but we want this body to work well, and if it is thought that there should be an addition to the categories proposed we can discuss between now and the Report stage whether a category (e) ought to be introduced.

LORD SHEPHERD

While we are still uncommitted to the Amendment passed earlier on a Division, we are not desirous that it should go forward to another place short of what it ought to be. Therefore, if there is to be discussion on this Schedule we shall be glad to take part in it.

LORD LLEWELLIN

I imagine the Amendment is agreed to, on the same terms as the other consequential Amendment.

LORD SHEPHERD

We agree without agreeing.

On Ouestion. Amendment agreed to.

Third Schedule [The Mental Nurses Committee]:

LORD SHEPHERD

This Amendment is to ensure that a mental hospital matron appointed to the mental nurses committee shall be the matron of an approved training institution. It is not necessary for me to make a speech about the Amendment. I commend it to your Lordships, and I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 15, line 31, after ("hospital") insert ("which is an institution approved by the Council for the purposes of the training rules").—(Lord Shepherd.)

LORD SHEPHERD

The next Amendment is the one to which reference was made a few moments ago when we were dealing with the last clause of the Bill. This Amendment is designed to secure that the chief male nurse appointed to the mental nurses committee is the chief male nurse of a mental hospital which is an approved training institution, for the same reasons as apply in the case of the mental hospital matron so appointed. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 15, line 34, leave out ("chief male nurse") and insert ("male nurse in charge of the male nurses employed in such a mental hospital as aforesaid").—(Lord Shepherd.)

Third Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining Schedule agreed to.

House resumed.