§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask His Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the free supply of spectacles to foreign visitors under the National Health Service Leaflet No. 2 is on a sufficiently large scale to interfere with the proper and speedy supply of spectacles to British nationals, and whether in those circumstances His Majesty's Government are prepared to withdraw from foreign visitors the right to receive free spectacles, also dental plates and free medical, dentist and nursing care, all of which interfere with the speedy and efficient treatment of British nationals and are given at the expense of the already very hard-driven British taxpayer; and whether in any event they will cancel the instructions to circulate the leaflet in question to foreign visitors 346 visiting these shores so as to reduce the number who are likely to make use of these free services and so enable our own people to be better served.]
§ THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR)My Lords, His Majesty's Government are not aware that the treatment of foreign visitors is on a scale that could materially affect the treatment of British residents. They have no evidence that would lead to such a conclusion. As regards the leaflet mentioned, it is one of a number of documents handed only to visitors (including British visitors) staying in this country for at least twenty-eight days. Each of these documents contains reference to the National Health Service. The Government see no reason to alter this arrangement. I may add that the cost of the treatment of foreign visitors (though exact estimates are not available, since separate figures are not kept) could hardly exceed, at the most, one-tenth of 1 per cent. of the total cost of the Service.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his answer, but I am sure he will not expect me to be satisfied with it. Arising out of that answer, I would like, first, to ask the noble Lord whether Le is aware that the Under-Secretary in another place mentioned a figure of at least £200,000 as being the cost of making these benefits available to foreign visitors. Secondly, I would like to ask the noble Lord whether he is in agreement with the inscription on the outside of the National Health Service leaflet to which he has referred. With your Lordships' permission, I will read it to you because it is very short. This is how it runs:
The National Health Service will provide you with all medical, dental and nursing care. Everyone—including all visitors to this country, whether of British nationality or not—can use it or any complete part of it. There are no charges, except for a few special items. No insurance qualifications are necessary.I would like to know whether the noble Lord agrees with that inscription and think s it right that it should be published at this time when we are crippled with taxation and, as I have said in my Question, very hard pressed. Does the noble Lord believe it is right that we should give all these service; to foreign visitors and should hand these leaflets to them at the ports?
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORMy Lords, with regard to the first part of the noble Viscount's supplementary question, I have seen no reference to the figure of £200,000 which he has mentioned.
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORI accept the figure from the noble Viscount though, as I say, I have not seen any reference to it. I did say in my reply that the cost of the treatment of foreign visitors could hardly exceed one-tenth of 1 per cent. of the total cost of the service. That is certainly accurate, and it may be that one-tenth of 1 per cent. of the total cost is £200,000. That figure, too, may be quite accurate. With respect to the second part of the noble Viscount's supplementary question, no doubt I should give him a shock if I were to say that I disagreed with the passage from the leaflet which he has read. The purpose of that passage is to assist in carrying out of an Act of Parliament. Parliament, in its wisdom, decided that foreigners should enjoy these benefits. I believe that so long as Parliament is of that view it is quite proper to issue this circular to enable the foreign visitor to know what he is entitled to.
§ LORD TEVIOTMay I ask the noble Lord whether there are signs of any reciprocity in this direction from the Governments of other countries towards our own nationals?
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORThat hardly arises out of this Question, but I can tell the noble Lord that efforts are being made at the present time with a view to obtaining reciprocity.
LORD RENNELLMay I ask the noble Lord whether he can tell the House approximately what one-tenth of 1 per cent. of the total cost of the Service amounts to?
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORI have already said that the figure given by the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, may be correct, but I do not know.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, as soon as His Majesty's Government have made 348 reciprocal arrangements with other Governments for them to provide free spectacles and dental plates, and so on, for our nationals, will His Majesty's Government take steps to inform people here so that they may make arrangements to visit those countries in order to obtain things which they cannot now obtain here?
VISCOUNT ELIBANKArising out of the answer in which the noble Lord said the Government had no proof that what I suggested in my Question—that service to our own nationals was being interfered with by this provision for foreign visitors —was correct, may I now hand him four letters which I have received from people living in different parts of the country? In those letters it is stated quite definitely that the persons concerned have not received their spectacles, although they have been on order for six months. Will the noble Lord not take that as an indication that these special free services to foreign visitors are interfering with the services to British nationals?
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORMy Lords, I shall be pleased to receive the letters to which the noble Viscount refers, and I will take steps to have them investigated.
§ LORD BELSTEADMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that if the delay is sufficiently long between the testing and the supplying of the spectacles it may be necessary for the eyes of the patient to be tested again? I think attention should be drawn to the case of Mr. William Rushbrook, of 31, Hazhill Road, Ipswich, who had his eyes tested in December last year but who, in spite of frequent and repeated applications, has not yet received his glasses.
§ LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGORThe reason why so many applications are made is due to the fact that so many applicants needed spectacles long ago.