HL Deb 01 June 1949 vol 162 cc1327-9

2.58 p.m.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask His Majesty's Government whether they are prepared to authorise separate establishments and make initial grants and maintenance grants in respect of pipe bands in units of the Territorial Army on the same basis as other military bands.]

THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (LORD PAKENHAM)

My Lords, the noble Earl will doubtless have seen the Written Answer which I gave to the noble Earl, Lord Mansfield, on May 24. To that reply I would add only this: that the Scottish and Irish Regiments in the Territorial Army are treated similarly to those in the Regular Army in that grants are made for the purpose of maintaining military bands. In addition, six pipes are supplied and maintained at public expense.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, but would he not agree that the figures which are given show that a military band is in a much more favourable position than a pipe band, inasmuch as it has an establishment of thirty against an establishment of six, and an initial grant of £300 against no initial grant? I would ask the noble Lord only to confirm that this is not due to any desire to discriminate against a form of music which has had a distinguished record with Scottish, Irish and Gurkha Regiments.

LORD CLYDESMUIR

Will the noble Lord remember that the pipe bands provide traditional music for all Scottish Regiments, as well as for Irish Regiments, that there is a great feeling in Scotland that pipe bands should receive treatment at least equal to that accorded to military bands, and that many more than six pipers are required for a full pipe band—twelve or possibly sixteen?

LORD PAKENHAM

My Lords, I will certainly call the attention of my right honourable friend to what the noble Lords have said, but are they aware of the composition of a full military band? A military band includes cornet, trombone, clarinet, trumpet, euphonium, tuba, French horn, flute, piccolo, oboe, bassoon and drum.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

I am grateful to the noble Lord for saying he will take this matter back for further consideration, and would ask him to consider also that units might prefer to have a pipe band without a military band. In those circumstances, could they not receive similar treatment?

LORD PAKENHAM

As I said, I will lay everything that noble Lords have said before my right honourable friend. I am authorised to say that while I am not able to hold out any special hope, he is prepared to go into the whole matter.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

I thank the noble Lord very much.