§ A.B. Take notice that in the event of your being convicted of the charge of contravening (give reference to the section of Act or Order) in the complaint preferred against you at my instance it is intended to place before the Court the undernoted previous convictions and 254 you will be liable (in respect that the offence is a second (or third) offence) to the penalties set forth in the said section(s) (or in section of the said Act or, if preferred, the penalties may be shortly set forth).
§ List of previous convictions
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKOnly a small point arises in this Amendment, but owing to the removal of previous sentences from the indictment it becomes of greater importance that the service of previous convictions, and the sentences which attend to them, should be clearly read out to the accused. In the Schedule as drafted it is permissive whether or not the full liabilities in view of the previous convictions are read out. My Amendment suggests that it should be mandatory to say exactly how long a sentence could be imposed by Statute in the circumstances. I think it is fair to an accused that that should be the case, and that he should know the seriousness of the offence with which he is being charged. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 62, line 8, leave out from the first ("in") to the second ("section").—(The Earl of Selkirk.)
§ LORD MORRISONI am doubtful whether the very short reply I am about to give here will be acceptable to the noble Earl. I am advised that the object of this Amendment and the next is undesirable, because in some cases the list of penalties, including all the alternatives, would be very long, and in these cases it is thought sufficient to refer the accused person to the terms of the appropriate section.
§ LORD REIDI hope the Government will have another look at this. I realise that there may be cases where there would be difficulty in applying the precise terms of this Amendment. The noble Lord will know that we in Scotland have always prided ourselves on giving the accused very full notice, in one form or another, not only of the crime or offence with which he is charged but also of what may happen to him if he is convicted. I agree that under the existing system it is not perfect, and there are, perhaps, occasions when notice is not wholly adequate, but I am afraid that under the new system the notice will be very much less adequate than it is at present. I did not intervene on the question of whether it was a good 255 thing to withdraw previous convictions from the notice of the Judge until the man had been convicted. Personally, I would rather be inclined to think that it was a bad thing, but I do not hold a strong view. The effect of that is, of course, that nothing must be put in the complaint which indicates that the man has been convicted before, and if the penalty is specified and the Judge knows that what is specified is the penalty for the second or third offence, of course he puts two and two together and knows that the man was previously convicted. Therefore, no penalty must be specified in the complaint itself. I think we are entitled to ask that as much specification should now appear in the notice as has previously appeared in the complaint, and I am very doubtful whether that requirement is met. Perhaps the matter could be looked into, and we could see whether the present position does or does not prejudice the rights of the accused in comparison with the existing position.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Morrison, for apologising for his answer, and I readily accept his apology. I think the difficulties he raised are quite unreal, however. All we want to know is the major sentence which could be inflicted on a man. After what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Reid, has said. I hope the Government will reconsider this matter.
§ LORD MORRISONI will gladly consult with those responsible for advising me before the Report stage.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Seventh Schedule agreed to.
§ Eighth Schedule [Release of young offenders from prison on licence]:
§ LORD MORRISONThis is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 63, line 3, leave out ("fifty-four") and insert ("fifty-two").—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Eighth Schedule, as amended, agreed 10.
§ Ninth Schedule agreed to.
256§ Tenth Schedule [Consequential and minor amendments]:
§ LORD MORRISONThis Amendment is also drafting. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 66, line 40, at end insert ("in the complaint").—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD MORRISONThis is a drafting Amendment to correct a wrong reference. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 66, line 44, leave out (('forty-four") and insert ("forty-two").—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Tenth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ Eleventh Schedule [Enactments repealed]:
§ LORD MORRISONThis is another drafting Amendment. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 71, line 43, leave out lines 43 to 45.—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD MORRISONSection 72 of the 1860 Act provides for the removal from prisons to hospitals of prisoners suffering from infectious diseases, or in danger of their life. It is no longer required in view of the provisions of Clause 57 (2) (b). I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§ Page 72, line 17, at end insert—
| ("23 & 24 Vict. c. 105. | The Prisons (Scotland) Act, 1860. | Sections seventy-two and seventy-three.") |
§ —(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD MORRISONThis and the next Amendment are drafting Amendments to repair printer's errors. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 73, line 27, leave out ("section") and insert ("sections").—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 73, line 28, leave out from ("sixty-three") to ("of") and insert ("sixty-four and sixty-five.")—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD MORRISONThis is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 73, line 36, at end insert ("Schedule E so far as it relates to the probation of offenders.")—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
257§ LORD MORRISONThis proviso is no longer required, in view of subsections (1) and (2) of Clause 60, which will replace it. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 73, line 41, at end insert: ("In section twenty-five, in subsection (2) the proviso.")—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD MORRISONThis repeal is incompetent, because corporal punishment, as a court penalty, is not being abolished by the Bill. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 74, line 3, third column, leave out lines 3 to 5.—(Lord Morrison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Eleventh Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
§ 6.32 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRK moved, after the Eleventh Schedule, to insert the following new Schedule: