HL Deb 09 June 1948 vol 156 cc603-27

6.30 p.m.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND rose to call attention to the present condition of the Highland Counties of Scotland, and to ask His Majesty's Government, whether they can make any statement on the work and responsibilities of the Advisory Panel on the Highlands and Islands, 1947; and to move for Papers. The noble Duke said: My Lords, I am not speaking for myself alone but at the unanimous wish of the County Council of Sutherland. I believe that I also represent the feelings and wishes of a large number of people in other Highland counties who live very much under the same conditions as we do in Sutherland. The Highlands of Scotland have problems which are peculiarly their own. Unlike the Lowlands, the richer lands of England and the South, their conditions are hard. I think we are all agreed that during the last century the finest type of British manhood has been bred in those far distant mountains—men who have made our finest soldiers, not only in modern times, but throughout the days of Wellington and the Napoleonic wars. Not only have these men provided the flower of our Army for a generation, but roam where you will throughout our great Empire, you will find Scots, and often Highland Scots, running great engineering works or business enterprises. Their names stand very high in Canada, particularly in the West.

I well remember that when I opened the Caledonian Games in Vancouver, in 1939, 60,000 Highland Scots turned out in their kilts for the occasion. They were more Scottish than the Scots at home, and the memory of their old homes in the Highlands was deeply engraved on their hearts. It is the same wherever you go throughout the Dominions overseas. They are the cement that binds together these great communities, often consisting of varying races by birth. These Empire Scots like to come back and visit their old homes. Many of them have relations, dependants or parents in the homeland. What do they find when they get back to their Highland homes? What are we doing for those left behind, those who elect to stay, those who have to stay, in the homeland? No wonder many go to follow in the footsteps of the successful ones, out into new lands and fortunes, when there is so little for them at home. Surely it is our duty to keep some good people in our native land, to make their lot pleasant, to do what we can to make their rather dull, hard lives brighter and more pleasant.

The Labour Party came into power on a great wave of enthusiasm—whether rightly or wrongly, who can say? But the fact remains that the Highlands and the Highlanders, whatever their political creed, expected much of them. Where could the Labour Party find a better example for their creed of help to the humble? A general hope was expressed by all that something real and great would at last be done for the Highlands and their hardy people. But time went by, and people began to shake their heads. They had been disappointed often enough in the past; surely they were not going to be fobbed off again with yet another Committee, or even a Panel. During the last fifty years the number of Committees that have been appointed to consider Highland grievances is truly alarming. And very little has come of all these Committees. When we hear of £100,000,000 being spent on the ground-nuts scheme in Africa, we say "More power to your elbow, if the business is economically sound for the Empire." But surely a few of those millions could be spared to develop the remnants of a hardy race to whom Britain owes so much.

The population of Sutherland in 1914 was 21,000. It is now 13,000; and it is mostly the old and the children who remain. What have they to live for, if they stay? Taxation to pay for two wars has ruined laird and landlord alike. But what of the people themselves; how can they be helped? It is no use forming Committees to consider questions. Their Reports have never been acted upon; they are usually pigeon-holed. What Highlanders ask is that on all truly Scottish questions they may be directed more from Edinburgh than from London. They are the most loyal people in the world, but they think that more should be left in the hands of Scotsmen—Highlanders' affairs in the hands of Highlanders—and that the Scottish Office should rule primarily from Edinburgh, rather than from London.

Your Lordships may well ask what can be done to help this country and its people. I shall point out a few practical things, all of which are included in the official memorandum submitted by the Sutherland County Council to the Advisory Panel on the Highlands and Islands. Most of these points apply equally to all Highland counties. But before I refer to this, I make one appeal to the Government: Do not to-day give a merely stereotyped answer, as is too often done in this House on unimportant questions. Every Highlander is listening today with hope in his heart. If you merely disappoint him, as has been done so often in the past, he has finished with you for ever. He expected much from you; he has had very little up to date; and he now awaits a final judgment. I should also like to ask the noble Lord, Lord Morrison, whether he will give us some idea of the duties and responsibilities, and of the composition, of the Highlands Advisory Panel who advise the Secretary of State. I understand that it is to him that they report.

I turn for a moment to the County Council memorandum to show what practical things could be done now, not things far away in the dim and distant future. First in importance is the question of roads. All roads should be made national roads. In our county and in all Highland counties, the most important thing is transport. Until we have transport, we cannot develop the country. It would be a wonderful thing if second-class and third-class roads, which are maintained by the county councils, could be made national roads, along with first-class roads. That would be far more sensible than nationalising the steel industry. Secondly, there are thousands upon thousands of acres of peat land in this country lying completely unexploited. It is surely in the interests of the whole nation that this peat land should be tested for quality and depth and, if found satisfactory, should be developed on commercial lines for the benefit of all peoples in this country. When properly processed, peat can take the place of coal, and it must be obvious that by using it for this purpose the amount of coal available for export could be greatly increased.

I suggest that immediate steps be taken to probe and measure the peat possibilities of the Highland counties and that every encouragement and assistance be given by the State to any commercial undertaking taking an interest in the ex- ploitation and development of this valuable national asset. If the peat tests in the Highlands are successful, the peat industry should be developed on a big scale and factories erected for making briquettes. I do not think this has ever been done successfully on a commercial basis, but I am not satisfied that it is not possible. I hope the Government will go into this question, because it seems a tremendous waste to have these tens of thousands of acres lying barren and unused when fuel is so scarce.

As regards coal, there is one known source of coal in the County of Sutherland—at Brora. Mining has been carried on there for many years. The coal is admittedly not of first-class quality for household use, but many households in the county use it and find it satisfactory. It is possible, and highly probable, that there are undeveloped seams which, if explored, might give a much higher quality. For industrial purposes, the quality of coal at present mined is entirely suitable. Around this coal mine have sprung up a tweed-weaving industry and brickworks. The latter has fallen into desuetude, in the Council's opinion through no fault in the quality of the brick clay found in the vicinity, nor in the heating quality of the coal used in the furnaces. I should like, therefore, to stress the importance of developing the coal resources in the Brora area. This industry is in actual operation now and, if developed and expanded, would form the nucleus and basis of other industries which would naturally spring up around a productive coal mine.

The fishing industry in this county was at one time mainly a source of part-time occupation to the crofter-fishermen living around the coast of the county. It was a necessary adjunct to the meagre living which they could make from their crofts. It still is, but owing to the dilapidation of the piers and slipways all round the coasts, and the depredations of trawlers and Seine net boats within the inshore limits, this source of livelihood has all but disappeared. With the necessary financial assistance which the State can and should give, and with greatly extended vigilance by the Fishery Department on the cruel depredations of the trawlers and Seine netters, this industry could be revived and made to flourish. Deep sea fishing is carried on to a limited extent. It would be greater if proper harbour facilities were available. As to inshore fishing, we are all agreed that this is an industry that must be revived and encouraged with all expedition. It could be an asset of the greatest importance to the nation. The market for the inshore fisherman is chiefly in his own locality, and by supplying that area with food he is making available for the larger industrial centres other foods that are in short supply. We must therefore put forward, with all urgency, the proposal that piers and slipways around the coasts of the county should be surveyed and, after assessing the fishing possibilities of each, that action be taken to have repairs and renovations executed.

Then there is the question of deep sea harbours. The County Council considers that harbours capable of taking deep-sea fishing boats, and also capable of taking commercial boats of reasonable tonnage, should be developed on the west, north and east coasts of the county, where there are already old harbours which only need putting into order. On the east coast it has long since been decided that the ideal locus for a deep-sea harbour is at Helmsdale. I am glad to say that, at the instigation of the County Council, the Secretary of State now has this project under consideration, and that plans and estimates for reconstruction and development have been prepared and lodged with the Scottish Home Department. On the question of afforestation, I would remind your Lordships that there are vast areas in the north which are eminently suitable for planting. This matter has often been discussed before in your Lordships' House. Every endeavour should be made to encourage this industry. We are all agreed, too, that forestry activities should not encroach upon good agricultural land, and that every co-operation should exist between the agricultural interests and those of the Forestry Board. It will be found that great benefit can result to both interests by the planting of extensive shelter belts throughout the more barren areas.

On the matter of hydro-electric development, it is thought that the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board have made a complete survey of the north and have already assessed the values of the waters in those areas. There are many rivers and lochs ready for development, and the utmost use and advantage should be taken of these. There is still, I believe, considerable scope in the north for hydroelectric development. I would like to congratulate the Government on that, and I hope they will go considerably further than they have gone already.

In our county we have an enormous amount of minerals. In the Durness and Eriboll districts, in the north-west of the county, there are resources of the highest class dolomite, estimated at 150,000,000 tons. Of this huge quantity 100,000,000 tons is on the State-owned lands in this area. Magnesium is also mentioned in the Report, as it is found in large quantities in the dolomite, particularly in the Durness and Eriboll area. Magnesium was largely used during the war. It is understood that a great amount of it was extracted from dolomite found in County Durham during the war. Limestone is also found in immeasurable quantity in the parish of Assynt. It is known that the resources of limestone in this area are beyond calculation. Again, in the Durness and Eriboll area, limestone is in very great supply. The limestone industry could and should be developed immediately. One large market for this product is at the very door—agriculture. The market is there now in the existing agricultural requirements, not only of the county of Sutherland but of the country as a whole.

Then there is the question of agriculture. The County Council consider that the main objective must be to settle on the land the greatest possible number of truly agricultural people, giving to each sufficient land to exclude the necessity of seeking work outside his agricultural pursuits. At present, the great majority of small holdings in the county have probably not more than five to ten acres of arable land. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to carry any reasonable numbers of stock. Small holdings might be created, where economically possible, with hill grazings attached as outrun for stock. Some of these small holdings might also be linked with forestry schemes. We did a good deal of that in the county some twenty years ago. The schemes were not all successes, but they were attempted. I think that now even sounder schemes might be thought of. I remember that my grandfather spent £250,000 trying to develop land in the county—a very big area of land—and I am sorry to say that it certainly did not pay back that large sum of money, quite apart from the amounts he had to spend on other parts of the county. He spent that very large amount in that particular area (I think is was £50 an acre) but to-day the land is not worth anything like that amount. It is, I must admit, much improved, compared with what it was.

Many of these proposals apply equally to most of the Highland counties, and are not peculiar to Sutherland. Since I first intimated publicly that I intended to press this Motion in your Lordships' House, I have received letters from all over the country from people who formerly lived in the Highlands asking to return there if a proper means of livelihood could be assured to them. I feel very strongly that, if nothing is done, in ten years or more some areas of the country may be almost a waste. But if the right methods are now taken, a small, thrifty, prosperous population might be maintained. I think that small hamlets should be created, on the lines of the Glen Affric Scheme, in conjunction with the hydro-electric works. Care should be taken not to draw people away from the Highlands to the great industrial belt in central Scotland. I know it is impossible to prevent people going, but they should not intentionally be drawn away. In some counties one hears stories of no grouse, and consequently no shooting tenants, with the lodges practically rotting as they stand, the landlord being unable to keep them up, even if he could get permission to do so. Many of these vast areas should be put to the best use possible. In the old days the county's rates were paid largely from the shooting and fishing rents, but in many cases these have ceased to exist, and the place can be rated only for its agricultural value.

The grouse have decreased enormously, thus losing to Scotland the rating value of all these moors. They must, I fear, have been having a war of their own against the increasing vermin while we, who ought to have been shooting the grouse, were taking part in the Great War. At any rate, the loss of rates, owing to lack of sporting rents, is much higher than could be imagined in certain counties, and applies to both grouse moors and deer forests. As the taxable income falls, the expense account goes up. We are spending a great deal more on other things, such as education, and that makes the rating question a very difficult one. The rating of the Highland counties is becoming fantastically high—26s. in the £ is what we have been paying in Sutherland lately—and I believe it cannot be borne for long. I believe something is being done that may ease that burden. But it is much the same, though not quite so bad, in other Highland counties.

In the earlier part of my remarks, I spoke of the men of the Highlands and their great reputation as fighting men and Empire builders. Now at this stage, before completing my remarks, I should like to pay a tribute to the women of the North and their fortitude. While their men were away overseas or at work, they have kept the home fires burning in their lonely crofts and houses. In the First World War they did magnificent work in the Women's Services. Cannot we do something for them, first, to ease their declining years and, secondly, to help their children on the hard road they have to climb? What can we give them to look forward to in the future? They ask very little, but they deserve much. I beg to move for Papers.

6.52 p.m.

LORD CLYDESMUIR

My Lords, I rise to make one short point. I would like to reinforce the request made by my noble friend for some information about the work of the Highland and Islands Advisory Panel. We shall be grateful if the noble Lord can tell us something of this work. The problem of the Highlands has been one which has exercised the minds of successive Secretaries of State, and in 1939 a Committee known as the Hilary Committee reported on this problem when I was in the Scottish Office. I brought certain proposals before another place in the summer of that year. But war came within two months, and most of those proposals were not carried out.

Now the Scottish Council and their predecessors—who were known as the Scottish Development Council—have been very active in their interest in Highland matters, and I may assume—and perhaps the noble Lord will say so—that the Council are being taken into consultation in the work of the Advisory Committee, because their knowledge of these questions is very considerable. The Scottish Council have held the view that hydro-electric development is of particular importance to the Highlands, but the price at which electricity may be available will not alone be sufficient to tempt new industries into those areas. It is therefore represented that other facilities should be available in order to bring the industries there. That is a matter which I believe is before the Highland Panel just now, and I should be interested to hear about that.

Then there is the question of transport. The Scottish Council recently reported to the Secretary of State on the question of transport in the Highland area. I do not know if the noble Lord is in a position to say how far the consideration of that report has gone, but I presume it is another matter which will be before the Advisory Panel. All I would do is to reinforce what my noble friend has said—that it would be greatly appreciated in Scotland if some information about the work of this Panel—which has now been sitting for rather over eighteen months—could be divulged, so that those who live in the Highlands and Islands may feel that their case is going forward. It is true that the proposals we made in 1939 had largely to be dropped because of the war, but it is also true that the war brought certain benefits to those remote parts in the shape of aerodromes, roads and other facilities. That development is now over, and unless proposals come forward soon for new help I think these areas will become depressed. I would be grateful if the noble Lord could tell us something of the work of this Panel.

6.55 p.m.

LORD MORRISON

My Lords, I hope it may be for the convenience of your Lordships if I intervene now, and give some information to the best of my ability about some of the matters which have been raised. I am glad that the wonderful patience of the noble Duke over a long period has at last been rewarded, and that an opportunity has been afforded to him to put his Motion forward. It is true that the opportunity has come at the end of a long and somewhat exhausting day, but perhaps it is just as well that, after all the excitement of the last few hours, some of us, at least, should calmly and quietly begin to think out real constructive solutions to problems in the Highlands and Islands. I doubt whether any other assembly in the world could do such a thing, and it is all to the credit of your Lordships' House that we are able to move from one subject to another.

The noble Duke asks in his Motion—and the noble Lord, Lord Clydesmuir, echoed the request just now—for some information about the work of the Advisory Panel in the Highlands and Islands. I will certainly do my best to give him such information as I possess. As the noble Duke knows—and I am afraid other noble Lords know—I have not yet been fortunate enough to visit the Highlands and Islands and, therefore, I cannot speak from personal knowledge such as the noble Duke possesses. However, before very long, all being well, I hope to remedy this very unfortunate handicap.

May I begin by giving a definite assurance on behalf of His Majesty's Government that, as far as it lies within their power, they are prepared to do all they can to preserve and develop the Highland way of life? As the noble Duke knows, the Advisory Panel only came into existence as recently as January of last year. I was going to say that the real father of the Advisory Panel was the noble Lord, Lord Clydesmuir, but I think it would be more correct to say that he was its grandfather. He reminded us that in August, 1939, when he was Secretary of State for Scotland, he had something to do with this matter and in turn I would bring back to his memory some words he used in another place on August 1, 1939. He said: At the same time I am alive to the importance of ensuring that the problems of the Highlands and Islands are considered as a whole, and for this purpose I propose at regular intervals to hold conferences with the Departments concerned in order to review the situation, and I shall continue to keep in close touch with local authorities and other persons specially qualified to advise me on the needs of the Highlands and Islands. As the noble Lord said, his statement was made under the shadow of impending war, and as events turned out he was not able to pursue that idea. But, as he knows quite well, it has gone forward. Governments come and Governments go, but good ideas march steadily forward. Therefore, I think the noble Lord is entitled to claim to have brought this good idea forward.

The Advisory Panel on the Highlands and Islands was constituted in January of last year with these terms of reference—or perhaps I should use the correct Scottish word "remit." They were: To advise the Secretary of State for Scotland on the carrying out of concerted plans by Government Departments, local authorities and the public bodies for promoting the best economic use of resources and capacity in the Highlands and Islands. The Panel comprises representatives of all the political Parties holding seats in the Highlands, one representative nominated by each of the seven Highland counties, one representative nominated by the burgh of Inverness, two representatives nominated by the Scottish Council (Development and Industry), and four persons nominated by the Secretary of State. The Government Departments concerned with Highland affairs have nominated liaison officers to work with the Panel. The Panel as a whole will be holding their eleventh meeting at the end of this week. They have also done a good deal of work through groups which they have set up to consider various aspects of their remit. There are five groups: one on agriculture and forestry, one on fisheries, one on textiles, one on transport, and a fifth group on industries and planning. These groups have already had numerous meetings and have paid many visits to the various districts of the Highlands and Islands to make contacts at first hand with the problems and people involved. With the assistance of these groups the Panel have been able to give much valuable advice to the Secretary of State, and the influence they have will be apparent from what I am going to say presently.

Before I do so, however, I would like to add one other word on the question of machinery. It seems to me that Scotland is fortunate these days in the readiness with which so many of its leading citizens devote their time and energy to the development of their country. The Scottish Council (Development and Industry) have a great record of public service, and I know that they too are anxious to make their contribution to the development of the Highlands. The Government felt the need to have a thoroughly representative Highland body working with Government Departments and speaking directly to the Secretary of State on the special problems of the Highlands. They were also anxious to have the help of the Scottish Council. A link was, therefore, forged between these two bodies and it is in accordance with the spirit of the arrangement made that one of the Scottish Council's nominees on the Panel, Major the Honourable Robert Bruce, a most devoted worker for the well-being of the Highlands, acts as chairman of the Panel's industries and planning group. To ensure that the Panel recommendations fit into the wider framework of the Scottish economy, the Secretary of State also gives the Scottish Council an opportunity of commenting on those recommendations.

The noble Duke referred to the depopulation of the Highlands, and the facts are admitted. It is as well to put them on record. In 1871 the total population of the Highland counties stood at approximately 372,000. By 1947 it had fallen to 294,000. More serious than the actual fall in numbers is the fact that it has been accompanied by a drift of young people to the towns and to countries overseas. What is needed, therefore, is something which will attract young people of the Highlands to stay there, and which will ensure them a decent livelihood. I was glad, therefore, to hear the noble Duke say that he had received letters from people who, in more favourable circumstances, would be glad to return. This is the aim of Government policy.

In general, the future of the Highland counties will continue to depend on agriculture and forestry, the manufacture of tweed and hosiery, fisheries and the tourist industry in all its forms. To this should be added the development of natural resources such as peat, seaweed, minerals, and water power—at present virtually untapped. Hand in hand with those developments must go improvement of the basic services, transport, housing, water and drainage, which are necessary to provide the amenities needed if life in the Highlands is to thrive and prosper. Each of these subjects would make material for a debate on its own, and your Lordships will forgive me if I do not deal with them in detail. Many were discussed fully on the last occasion. I wish, however, to say something about some of them. If I omit any in which the noble Duke is interested, it will only be through pressure of time, and if he will let me know what they are I will get a reply to him in writing.

I will deal first with agriculture. The greater part of Highland agriculture consists in breeding hill sheep and cattle. The hill sheep and hill cattle subsidies and the Government grants for the rehabilitation schemes in the Highlands which have been submitted up to date cover 1,000,000 acres. This shows the readiness of owners and tenants to put this part of the industry on a sounder and more productive basis, and efforts are also being made by the Secretary of State to encourage the crofting tenants of the estates owned by him to co-operate in schemes of this kind for their own common grazings. A helpful sign for the future lies in the co-operation between forestry and agriculture. On the initiative of the Highlands Panel, a survey was made covering an area of some 400 square miles on the borders of Sutherland and Ross-shire. The survey shows that reorganisation of land use could enable the keeping of 500 more breeding cattle, while, at the same time 20,000 acres of land could be devoted to forestry. The Panel are taking steps to enlist the co-operation of the land owners and others concerned to develop the area on these lines, and the Forestry Commission and the Department of Agriculture for Scotland are willing to play their part. With regard to forestry, the post-war programme of the Forestry Commission is a matter of immense importance to the Highlands. When the programme is completed the Highlands may have as much as 750,000 acres of effective forest. This should, when in full production, produce 1,500,000 tons of timber annually and give employment to at least 7,500 men—possibly to many more if industries can be developed to process the timber locally. Your Lordships will agree that this is a programme on a long term, but one which is full of solid promise.

From forestry I pass to the textile industry. From its early development the manufacture of Harris tweed has grown into one of the greatest industries in the Highlands. About 5,000,000 lineal yards of Harris tweed were produced in 1947—more than was ever produced before. The Hebrides are not, of course, the only centre. There is the important Shetland hosiery industry and over the rest of the Highlands are smaller centres of manufacture. The textiles group of the Advisory Panel have visited most of these areas and discussed local problems on the spot. The future of the Highland textiles depends upon keeping up their high quality That is something which is primarily for the trade itself to protect. The most practical way of doing it is by the formation of local associations designed to keep up the standards of production and to assist in marketing, and I am glad to learn that in Sutherlandshire the noble Duke has played an important part in the formation of such a textiles association. I trust that its purpose of advancing the local industry there will meet with every success.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND

We have had great difficulty in getting modern looms—looms of the latest type. I think they are made in Huddersfield. They are of metal and are much better than the old looms. We have one or two now, and any help the Scottish Office can give us towards getting more will be greatly appreciated.

LORD MORRISON

I will certainly see whether anything can be done in that matter. I was just coming to the subject of mills. On the advice of the Advisory Panel, the Government have helped the Stornoway mills to obtain some of the spinning machinery which they so much needed, and wherever possible they have assisted in the construction and repair of spinning mills. I should also like to mention the large spinning and weaving centre which is being created at Oban, in times which are said to be difficult for private enterprise, and which is expected to give ultimate employment to about 200 persons. By Highland standards that is a very large number.

The noble Duke spoke about fisheries. May I say that I was sorry to see a newspaper account of an interview with the noble Duke in which he was reported as saying that the harvest of the seas was being lost. I hope that that report was not true, for the facts as given to me are very different. The total value of sea fish landed in the Highlands in 1947 was over £2,000,000. Generous assistance has been given by the Government to enable this revival of the fishing industry to take place. In the Highlands alone up to May 1 of this year, grants and loans amounting to approximately £133,000 have been offered to assist in the purchase of boats by herring fishermen. Up to the same date, grants and loans totalling £100,997 have been offered to inshore fishermen. These figures are for the Highland counties alone.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND

May I say that that figure of millions of fish was a mistake on the part of the newspaper? The number of pounds was a gross exaggeration. It was not my figure at all. It was given by the newspaper in error as the result of an interview.

LORD MORRISON

The figures that I have been given are the Government, figures. What I took objection to in what the noble Duke had said in an interview, was merely the passage where he was reported to have said that the harvest of the seas was being lost. I am proceeding to give figures to show that the harvest of the seas is not being lost. I will not go into the question of herring unless any of your Lordships specifically desires me to.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND

I meant that the harvest of the sea was being lost because there were not sufficient piers and harbours from which the boats could go out to catch the fish. They were not in a proper state of repair, so that the boats could go out from them.

LORD MORRISON

I think that the House has some general information as to the position of the herring fishing industry, and I will not go into it in detail. I pass on to say that the white fishing industry is of great importance to the north and east counties, and at Sutherland alone the white fish landings in 1947 were valued at over £57,000. So far from the harvest being wasted, we are indeed in some danger of over-fishing, and this risk is receiving most serious attention.

May I now turn to say a few words about lobster fishing? I should like to mention two developments of particular interest to lobster fishermen, both of them strongly supported by the Advisory Panel. The Scottish Agricultural Organisation Society, with assistance from the Development Fund, have acquired a number of former Admiralty lifeboats and are in process of converting them for lobster fishing. The first two demonstration boats have now gone to their stations, and others wig follow. Another scheme which will also be operated by the Scottish Agricultural Organisation Society, with Government funds, is the provision of storage ponds for lobsters. These ponds will enable lobsters caught in the summer to be stored until they can be trans-shipped to markets at the proper season. Thus they will cut down the heavy mortality among lobsters which is at present so great a loss to fishermen. In passing, I should also mention the grants and loans which the Government made towards the construction and repair of fishery harbours and piers throughout the country. Two such projects in the County of Sutherland, for the harbours at Golspie and Helmsdale, to which the noble Duke referred, are at present receiving consideration. The fisheries group of the Advisory Panel are to visit these harbours this week-end.

May I now say a few words about the tourist industry? The Highlands offer unrivaled attractions, to the overseas visitor in particular, and given suitable facilities there could be a great expansion of this industry. The greatest obstacle is shortage of accommodation. Unfortunately, the many plans which Highland hotel keepers have made to increase accommodation cannot go ahead at the moment, mainly owing to shortage of materials. But as soon as the difficulty of materials eases, and it is possible for these building projects to go ahead, every encouragement possible will be given in the way of licences, materials and any equipment which may be necessary. In this connection, I should like to mention the valuable work of the Scottish Tourist Board, who are helping hotel keepers in many of their problems and publicising Scotland as a tourist centre. They have completed and have now published a comprehensive register of accommodation.

I now turn to new developments. The first is the one to which the noble Duke referred—peat. The noble Duke has mentioned the possibilities which lie in the vast deposits of peat which cover certain parts of the Highlands. There is good reason to believe that modern mechanical cutting and processing would make peat available in substantial quantities, not only for fuel—and peat can be processed into a most attractive domestic fuel—but also for horticulture and other uses, for the generation of power and as a source of important chemicals. Many practical difficulties have still to be overcome. The remoteness of the main peat bogs, and the acute shortage of steel for machinery, are two of the main obstacles. The importance of developing the peat reserves of the Highlands is, however, fully realised, and the Government are prepared to give all the assistance they can to any persons who wish to develop this industry. The noble Duke has been in touch, I am informed, with the Scottish Departments on this question, and the results of certain experiments which he is carrying out are being awaited with interest by the Departments. The noble Duke has also mentioned the importance of exploiting the minerals which occur in varying quantity and quality throughout the Highlands. Your Lordships may already be aware that the Scottish Council have decided to appoint a committee to collect and publish authoritative information on this subject in a form which may encourage in this way any person who wishes to exploit the more promising deposits. The Government welcome this practical step and will do what they can to assist any one who is prepared to take advantage of it.

I need hardly remind the House of the great progress that is being made, to which the noble Duke referred, in harnessing the water power of the Highlands by the construction schemes of the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board. Work has now reached an advanced stage on the new projects for local supply at Morar and at Lochalsh, and they should be in production by the end of this year. The large schemes at Loch Sloy and Tummel-Garry should be in production by 1949–1950. Electricity is, of course, already being distributed locally in many areas, and is providing an immediate and striking addition to the amenities of the Highlands. The vast quantities of power which will be produced within a year or two suggest an opportunity for setting up new industries in the Highlands. The industries and planning group of the Highlands Panel is considering the problems involved. Power is already being supplied to many small industries throughout the area.

At the same time, the Hydro-Electric Board continue to keep in touch with large power users who are considering the establishment of industrial projects in the Highlands. In this matter they keep in close touch with the Scottish Council. A survey is at present being made by the planning staff of the Department of Health for Scotland of those areas of the High- lands where factory sites and industrial development could best be situated, in the expectation that the power which will shortly be available in the Highlands will attract some of the new industries which are dependent upon electrical power and which are vital to the country as a whole, both strategically and commercially.

Hand in hand with these developments in industry must go improvements of basic services, of which transport, housing, water supplies and drainage are perhaps of the greatest importance. The noble Duke mentioned transport. In the Highlands, it seems to me, everything turns on transport. In the earlier debate I dealt with sea communications, and your Lordships will not wish me to repeat what I said then. I understand, however, that the transport group of the Advisory Panel have almost completed their review of the pier needs of the whole Highlands area. Their advice on this subject will shortly be available to the Secretary of State. So far as the mainland is concerned, roads are the chief need. As I think the noble Duke said, the Advisory Panel have recommended that the completion of the crofter counties' road scheme should be expedited. The scheme is being given special treatment under the Government's capital investment policy, and no reduction in expenditure is contemplated. It is estimated that works to the value of about £600,000 will be started this year.

I come now to housing. I mentioned in the earlier debate the important recommendations made by the Advisory Panel that my right honourable friend should take early action to deal with the crofter housing problem. As a result, as your Lordships already know, the Agriculture (Scotland) Bill contains provisions for grants for the erection, improvement or rebuilding of crofter houses and buildings. Water supply and drainage schemes in the Highlands, costing over £3,000,000, have been included in the selection of schemes to be considered under the Water (Scotland) Act of 1944. Offers of grants already made total well over £1,000,000. It must be admitted that there are serious difficulties in the supply of labour and materials which hinder these important works going forward as fast as we should like, but so far as these difficulties permit this extensive programme will be pushed ahead as quickly as possible. I apologise for detaining your Lordships for so long but, before I sit down, may I mention one further point? Finance has always been a problem to Highland development. Any efforts to develop industry and improve amenities are costly. This is particularly true of the more remote areas, where the sparse population cannot be expected to bear the entire cost themselves. The measure of the financial assistance which the Government is giving will be clear from the figures I have already quoted.

To assist the Highland local authorities to play their part, the Local Government Act, which recently received the Royal Assent, has reorganised the basis of Government assistance to local finances. The new equalisation grants, taken in conjunction with the removal of the burden of health services and Poor Law, will be a special benefit to the Highland counties. A provisional estimate, based on figures supplied by the local authorities, shows that the lowest gain in any Highland county will be equal to a rate of 4s. 7d. in the £, and in some counties it will be considerably higher. Sutherland, for example, should enjoy relief amounting to a rate of 19s. 8d. in the £. In conclusion, and with many thanks to your Lordships for your patience in listening to me—I have given as much information as could be packed into a reasonable period of time—I wish to say that, despite the difficulties of the present day, it seems to me that this is a time of opportunity for the Highlands. No Government were ever more sympathetic to their needs or more ready to turn their sympathies into practical benefits. In return, the Government expect the active co-operation of the people of the Highlands and a practical determination to make the most of their beautiful home-land. Given these, I see no reason why the present generation should not reverse the sad story of much of Highland history, and be able to look forward to the future with confidence and well-founded hopes.

7.25 p.m.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I am sure you would like me to thank the noble Lord for his statement on this important matter, which has provided a most attractive long-term picture. If I may tell your Lordships what has passed through my mind—and we were discussing earlier to-day the formation of public opinion—my opinion, such as it is, is that the Highland Panel were against anything substantial. I cannot say that the statement of the noble Lord has entirely dissolved that opinion. I still do not know through what channel and how Panel are going to work. There is still no ascertainment as to what report they will make. How are we to know what is being done, or what has been recommended? Perhaps I might ask this question. I was not clear whether the statement in regard to the £600,000 refers to what has been approved by the Panel.

LORD MORRISON

The figure of £600,000 was in regard to roads.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

They are the concern of the local authorities. May I ask a question, which perhaps the noble Lord is not in a position to answer—namely, can we have any idea what funds have been agreed on, on the recommendation of the Highland Panel? We have no idea of that, I understand. Our feeling is still that this panel have been set up, and, although I would not like to think they were set up for this purpose, they have given the impression that it was simply to put the Highlands "on ice." I am not suggesting that that is, in fact, what is happening; but that is the impression that has been gained. I would like to ask one further question on the subject of industrial estates or improving the development of factories. It is no good attracting factories anywhere unless you can get materials for building them. Can the materials be found? Are we going to approach it on a pari passu basis? If it is possible to have an answer, I should be grateful, and I apologise for not having given notice of these questions in advance.

7.27 p.m.

THE DUKE OF MONTROSE

My Lords, I am not going to detain you at this late hour of the evening with a long speech about the development of the Highlands, but there are just one or two points which I might mention. When this debate was first initiated, my noble friend the Duke of Sutherland was good enough to favour us with a paper which was a report, I think from the Sutherland County Council to the Highland Panel. I believe that requests for similar reports were sent out to about five other coun- ties; and their reports ought to be in to the Advisory Panel by now. I am quite sure that it would be a mistake to deal with the Highlands area county by county. We should unify an area sufficiently large for any scheme to embrace the Highlands and the Islands, or what is commonly known as the Highlands area. That is the first point.

There was a mention of money, and how we were to finance some of these schemes. The noble Lord, Lord Morrison was good enough to put forward a most delightful pattern of the things that should be done and could be done. We want to know, of course, where that money is coming from to-day. In the old days we had the Congested District Board which had power to spend up to £30,000. Of course, £30,000 would go nowhere today, and the Congested District Board is finished for this purpose. What we really want is some independent authority which actually has money to spend, and which will do something without further reference to other people. I know that the Panel will report to the Secretary of State for Scotland, and I know that he is very keen to do something; but what can he do—what can anybody do—until he has the money with which to do it? The pigeon-holes of St. Andrew's House are simply choked with reports—advisory reports, and reports of various other kinds. We do not want any more reports; what we want is money with which to do something. I suggest that there ought to be a body created for the purpose of dealing with finance, and that the money required would certainly be a great deal more than the £30,000 which used to be allocated through the Congested Districts Board.

Among industries which were represented as constituting a possible cure for distress in the Highlands were those arising from the work of the Hydro-Electric Board. Now the Hydro-Electric Board is exporting power at a very high voltage to great industrial centres, and the electricity which is transmitted along its highly charged cables is quite useless from the point of view of localities of which we have been speaking. It is necessary to erect great transformers in order to provide current to meet local needs. When inquiry was made as to whether the Hydro-Electric Board could supply electricity for use in the villages and glens, the answer was "No." As I say, the Board are exporting vast quantities of very high voltage current to meet the demands for power from big industrial centres further South. I hope that when these industrial centres are, so to speak, saturated with power—and immense mains are now available for their use—transformers will be erected. At present, the Hydro-Electric scheme is of little use in so far as development of the Highlands and Islands is concerned. In years to come it may be of greater value.

I quite agree with the noble Duke who initiated this debate that transport is the great question which affects piers and roads in these areas. I think that an examination of all the reports from these councils in the Highlands will show that they all state, in effect, that transport is one thing which they must have to resuscitate the Highlands. There has been some talk about deer. It is said that prosperity will be obtained if deer preserves are swept away and the grouse, also, are got rid of. But one must remember that sporting facilities are a very valuable asset in relation to the rating power of different counties. I think that in the noble Duke's county sporting facilities represent about 20 per cent. of the rating assessment of the landward area.

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND

It would be more than that, I think.

THE DUKE OF MONTROSE

Before the war, the rating in respect of sporting facilities in another county represented about 33 per cent. of the total rating assessment for the county. To-day it is only about 8 per cent., because the deer have been taken away and the grouse dispersed. Who is going to make good the loss to the rates in those areas? It is desirable to preserve to a considerable degree the value of the sporting facilities because they make a great contribution to the assessable value for rents.

Some mention of peat has been made in the debate. Peat, of course, is a very good fuel, but it is far and away the most costly fuel that is available. It is heavy and wet, and it has to be dried and transported over long distances. But it is possible to use peat for other purposes than burning. One of the great shortages in the Highland areas is the shortage of housing. Now, if peat is pressed so that all the water is eliminated from it, and it is then dried and impregnated with cement, and formed into prefabricated blocks, the result is a very useful building material. With the use of this it is possible for local labour—unskilled labour—to erect dwellings inside a matter of a few weeks. That, I would submit, is a much more valuable way of using peat than simply putting it on the fire. I will not trouble your Lordships further at this late hour. Perhaps later on, on some more suitable occasion, we can go into these matters at greater length.

7.35 p.m.

THE MARQUESS OF ABERDEEN AND TEMAIR

My Lords, I would like to say a few words on this subject from the point of view of Scotsmen living outside the Highland area. We appreciate keenly how much the Highlands are capable of doing, and I think that we are much indebted to the noble Duke for bringing before us the facts contained in the memorandum from the County Council of Sutherland. Anyone who studies that document must become aware that there are great possibilities of production of all kinds from the land to which reference is made. To-day we are told, again and again, that the great need is to produce, produce, produce. Here is an opportunity for the Government to show what they can do to give to the Highlands the opportunity of producing more by providing the necessary capital. Let them furnish capital to assist the production of food and timber, both of which are very important indeed, and to provide employment. By so doing they will help to stern the dreadful de-population of the northern part of our land which is going on at the present time.

It is all very well to read figures, but if one does not have regard to the lessons they teach and act upon them one might just as well not read any figures at all. A serious reduction in population is revealed in this document from the Highlands. Surely it is but right that we should impress upon His Majesty's Government the great importance, not only of giving the population there the possibility of good living, but also of increasing the population and, thereby, increasing also the prosperity of the land. This land, as f have indicated, can yield great quantities of produce, and if it is enabled to do so then we shall save, amongst other things, what are always being talked about in Parliamentary circles just now—dollars. Let us be practical and show our sympathy in a practical way by doing what we can to enable these idle lands to bring forth the produce of which this country is so much in need at the present time.

7.38 p.m.

LORD MORRISON

My Lords, I can speak again only by leave of the House, and if I may have that leave I promise that I will not detain your Lordships for more than a few moments. This has been a short but, I think, a very helpful debate. It has been carried on in a very constructive spirit. I am indebted to the noble Lords who have taken part in the discussion, and I will do my best to bring the suggestions that have been made to the notice of those concerned. With regard to the speech of the noble Duke of Montrose, I may say that so far as my information goes finance is not the main difficulty at the moment. It is a question of materials rather thin of money. The noble Earl, Lord Selkirk, asked me two questions. One was whether people desiring to take light or even heavy industries into the Highlands when electric power is available would get their fair share of material. I can answer definitely that anyone putting forward proposals for the establishment of industries in the highlands will certainly be treated no worse than if they wanted to go to any other part of the country.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

That is as good as the industrial estates?

LORD MORRISON

Yes. With regard to the other question, it was—if I recollect aright—what had the housing section of the Highlands and Islands Panel done in regard to housing? I am informed that under previous Acts it was possible to give loans for crofters' houses, and, on the advice of the Panel, there is in the Housing Bill at present before your Lordships' House, authority to give grants in addition to loans. I repeat that this has been a most helpful debate and we are all indebted to the noble Dike for having initiated it. May I end by expressing the hope that when the noble Duke has withdrawn his Motion—as I trust he is going to do—this discussion may be adjourned, to be resumed later in the season, per- haps, on the home ground of some of the noble Lords?

THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND

Before withdrawing the Motion, may I suggest three things to the noble Lord, Lord Morrison? First, I suggest that he should say to the Secretary of State: "When you appoint a Committee, will you see that they produce some results?" It is results that we want. It has happened so often in the past that committees have been appointed and no action has resulted. If some action can be taken as a result of the appointment of a committee or any other body, that will be delightful. But we want to see positive results from the activities of these committees. We want to have an expert sent up to Sutherland and Ross-shire to examine the peat fields and tell us how deep the peat goes. We have no engineers to, do these things. If we could get somebody like the engineers Mr. Oppenheimer has in South Africa to test his gold mines and see how much gold there is, and how many pennyweights come up, it would be useful. Peat could be much more simply tested than gold, because it is not so deep. I wonder whether the noble Lord would ask the Secretary of State if he could help us by producing a man who could go round and make a report on the conditions of the peat fields. That would be of tremendous value. As the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, said, what we really want is an apportionment of money for the development of the Highlands. I mentioned the groundnuts scheme, on which the Government are to spend £100,000,000. If we could get £4,000,000 for production in the Highlands, it would go a long way towards their development. I thank the noble Lord for his interesting remarks. We are most grateful to him. I beg leave of the House to withdraw my Motion.

Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.