§ 2.53 p.m.
§ Amendments repotted (according to Order).
§ Clause 8 [Procedure and powers of Commission on references]:
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONMy Lords, all these Amendments an put down in order to meet undertakings given in Committee, and I think they do so faithfully, This particular Amendment relates to expenses for persons giving evidence under Clause 8. I undertook to see whether expenses could not be paid where they were properly incurred under subsection (3) (c) of the clause, where there was a requirement to furnish estimates, returns or information. Your Lordships will see that by this Amendment, as requested, it is now possible for the Commission to pay expenses in relation to those charges. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 9, line 2, at end insert ("and to any person who, whether in pursuance of a requirement under this section or not, furnishes estimates, returns or information to the Commission for the purposes of any such investigation as is referred to in the preceding provisions of this section").—(Viscount Addison.)
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, may I say how much we appreciate the way in which the Leader of the House has gone into all the questions we have raised? 999 So far as I can see, not only on this matter but on the others he has met us very fairly.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONMy Lords, this is consequential on the previous Amendment. It provides simply that the Commission are not required to pay expenses where a proper case arises. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 9, line 3, at end insert—
("Provided that the powers of the Commission under this subsection shall not be exercised in relation to the furnishing of estimates, returns or other information unless, according to their report, conditions to which this Act applies do not prevail in relation to the goods the subject matter of the reference.").—(Viscount Addison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 9 [Publication of reports of Commission]:
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONMy Lords, this is just a verbal alteration. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 9, line 20, after ("that") insert ("(a)").—(Viscount Addison.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONMy Lords, this is to meet a point which was raised, I think, by the noble and learned Viscount below the gangway and others—namely, that the report should not include a disclosure of secret information or information that would be damaging to any particular trade or traders. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 9, line 24, at end insert—
("(b) if it appears to the Board of Trade that the publication of any information contained in the report as to any secret process of manufacture or as to the presence, absence or situation of any mineral or other deposits or as to any other similar matter would substantially damage the legitimate business interests of any person, and they are satisfied that the portions of the report embodying that information could be omitted from the report without substantially affecting the sense, clarity or cogency of the report, or the value thereof as an aid to the proper understanding of the subject matter of the reference, the Board of Trade shall lay the report before Parliament with the omission of those portions thereof").—(Viscount Addison.)
§ VISCOUNT MAUGHAMMy Lords, this Amendment substantially carries out the object that I had in view in raising the great question of trade secrets. It is a matter which I regard as of great importance, and I think most of your Lordships take the same view. It is true that there are qualifications here, but I think they are reasonable, and I cannot object to them. On the whole, I think this clause will be of great value, not only in protecting business concerns which have trade secrets—as I have called them—which they want to protect from the public, but also, incidentally, in this respect: that the clause does indicate to any reader of this Bill, or the Act which will supersede it, the great importance of the functions and the duties which are to be conferred upon the Board of Trade and, as derived from them, upon the Commissioners. It has taken us 150 years or more to build up the trade of this country; and we are in a very difficult position at the present moment. But I hope the present Government, and any future Government, will realise that the Board of Trade now have in their hands, in the powers which are conferred on them by this measure, the future success or failure of the trade of this country; and the indication contained in this Amendment is one which I hope will have its effect on the Government of the time. We stand or fall by what the Board of Trade may do in the future, under the powers conferred by this Act. My Lords, having been allowed by the courtesy of the House to say that, I should like to thank the noble Viscount for the form of this skilfully-worded Amendment which carries out the object I had in view.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 16 [Annual Report]:
§
VISCOUNT ADDISON moved to add to the proviso to subsection (3):
or if the request was made within the last three months of the year to which the report relates.
The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this Amendment is designed to meet a point which was raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Swinton, and others to ensure that people should not be unduly prejudiced by the publication in the report of their names or the class of goods. It also seeks to make sure that, in addition to the powers of exclusion already possessed by the Board, there should not be a number
1001
of names added at the last minute by people who might seek to prejudice, or who might thereby unintentionally prejudice, the trader or a class of goods. This Amendment makes it clear that no cases shall be included if they are received in the last three months of the calendar year—that is, after the end of September. In view of the fact that the report will not be published until February there will be a period of five months, which excludes any applications of that sort. I think this meets the point which the noble Viscount urged in this regard, and I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 24, at end insert the said words.—(Viscount Addison)
§ VISCOUNT BRIDGEMANMy Lords, we on these Benches thank the noble Viscount the Leader of the House for having put down this Amendment; it goes a long way to meet what was a real danger in the Bill as originally drafted. A clause of this sort is apt to work both ways. On the one hand, it makes sure that undesirable practices are brought into the light of day; but on the other hand, until this Amendment was moved, it was perfectly possible for a state of affairs to arise where someone quite innocent might have his good name besmirched, either intentionally or unintentionally, by the mere fact that the Board of Trade were obliged to put the firm on the list and therefore print its name in the report before they had made the inquiry. As the noble Viscount has said, people might do that unintentionally, by accidentally bringing the name to the notice of the Board of Trade just before the end of the year. But it is possible that people might also do it intentionally, and it is no good disguising the fact that until the door was shut by the introduction of this Amendment a form of blackmail was possible. Even if a firm whose name was included in the report was perfectly innocent, some mud would stick. After all, Jack the Giant-Killer may be a hero in the fairy tale, but he is not necessarily, and not always, a hero in business. But, now that we have this Amendment, we feel satisfied that it is impossible for frivolous or malicious action to be taken in such a way that innocent people could have their names placed in this report before the Board of Trade had time to make the inquiry. We are also satisfied that three 1002 months gives the Board of Trade plenty of time to make all the inquiries they wish. Therefore, we on this side of the House support the Amendment.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.