UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE (EIRE VOLUNTEERS) BILL. (Hansard, 24 October 1946)

§ LORD CHORLEY

My Lords, I count it as particularly good fortune that the first occasion upon which I move a Second Reading in your Lordships' House should be the Second Reading of this Bill, a Bill which will benefit those gallant men the volunteers from Eire who served in His Majesty's Forces with us during the war. It is only fitting that now that we have returned to conditions of peace, some attempt should be made to show our appreciation of the work which these volunteers have done and the gallant service which they have rendered. What has happened to these volunteers since the cessation of hostilities? Some, of course, may still be serving with His Majesty's Forces. Others have already been demobilized, and many of these have, no doubt, returned home, where they have to settle down again into the conditions existing in Eire.

It may well be that numbers of them are already finding it difficult to obtain work. Obviously they are, from a number of points of view, in a rather difficult position to obtain work. One has to realize that, very naturally, the Government of Eire have given precedence to those men who have been serving with 700 their own Forces, and, in the meantime, the men of whom I am speaking have lost benefits which they would otherwise have had under the Eire Unemployment Insurance Acts. Their rights there will have lapsed because, of course, they have not been making the contributions which are required under those Statutes. This means that if the man is unemployed (as I have suggested there is very considerable likelihood of his being for a time), he will not be able to claim unemployment benefit under the scheme which prevails in his own country, nor has he the same benefits as a man who has been discharged from the Eire Defence Forces, because, in the case of that man, his period of service counts towards the qualifications for benefit under Eire Unemployment Insurance Acts.

In this country, the position under the unemployment insurance scheme is that every person (with the exception of regular officers) who is discharged from service in His Majesty's Forces is credited with contributions for the period of his service, and therefore if he is unemployed after his discharge he may qualify for unemployment benefit. But the benefit is payable only in this country, and so it happens that the Eire volunteer who has returned home and is unable to obtain work is not able to avail himself of the benefit of the contributions which have been made on his behalf under the unemployment insurance scheme and which he would otherwise obtain. We have been seeking, for some time, to rectify this situation. Your Lordships will recall that on several occasions the attention of this House has been focused by the noble Earl, Lord Cork and Orrery in particular, upon the need, and, indeed, the sad plight, of many of these Eire volunteers, and I am sure that you would wish me to pay tribute to the unremitting way in which the noble Earl has kept this important matter before us.

Your Lordships have been made aware of the sympathy of His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom for the hardships suffered by these ex-Service men and ex-Service women too, and earlier this year we were able to report to your Lordships that His Majesty's Government had put forward proposals to form the basis of discussions between the Government of Eire and ourselves. There followed meetings between officials of the 701 Eire Government and the Ministry of National Insurance, I am now in the happy position, this afternoon, of being able to say that His Majesty's Government and the Eire Government have agreed upon arrangements for bringing into operation this scheme under which unemployment benefit can be paid at our rate to these Eire volunteers. In these arrangements, I am glad to be able to say, the agreement of the Government of Northern Ireland has been obtained.

The Bill which is before your Lordships' House to-day will enable this scheme to be put into operation. It is proposed that under this scheme the Eire volunteers shall be able to qualify for up to thirty weeks of unemployment benefit at our rates and subject to our contribution conditions. They must also satisfy the other conditions in force in Eire for the receipt of unemployment benefit. But those conditions are substantially the same as our own, and these men will be eligible for increase in benefit for their dependants. They will not receive allowances for more than two dependent children, because the third child and subsequent children are already covered by the Eire family allowances scheme. Our rate of benefit, of course, as your Lordships are aware, is: for an adult man, 24s, a week, for a dependent wife 16s, a week and for the first two children 5s, a week each.

With regard to the number of Eire volunteers who may qualify under these proposals—the number that is who have served in His Majesty's Forces during the war—it is not possible to make an exact statement, but they are estimated as totalling something like 40,000. Again it is estimated that some 10,000 of these have given a home address in Eire on demobilization, and may well have already returned there. The cost of the benefits to be paid under this arrangement will be defrayed out of the Unemployment Fund in this country. The three Service Departments and the Treasury, as no doubt your Lordships are aware, pay contributions into this fund to enable ex-Service men and women to qualify for unemployment benefit on their discharge. Should they become unemployed, their period of service is treated as if it had been a period of insured employment.

I pass now to the Bill. There are few points, I think, which I need bring to the attention of your Lordships. Clause 1 702 provides that the arrangement will operate from a date which will be laid down by Order in Council, and it will last for a period of two years. This period may be extended by mutual arrangement between the two Governments. The scheme will apply to Eire volunteers discharged from His Majesty's Forces, who were ordinarily resident in Eire before they joined the Forces. In addition to the Armed Forces, it will cover the Auxiliary Services, including the women's services, the nurses, and the medical and dental services. To qualify for benefit, such ex-Servicemen and women must have had not less than thirty weeks' service with His Majesty's Forces during the two years before their claim. Under Clause 4, which is of some importance, the Minister is empowered to make regulations to put into effect any adaptations which may be necessary when the National Insurance Act comes fully into operation. As your Lordships appreciate that Act has not yet come into operation. When it does, on the appointed date, it will enable the necessary arrangement to be, so to speak, transferred.

In conclusion, I should like to say a word about the future. The National Insurance Act makes provision for reciprocal arrangements to be made between this country and other countries. It is very much to be hoped that the arrangement which is now being made by this Bill will be the forerunner of reciprocal arrangements under the National Insurance Act. Of course, this is not itself a reciprocal arrangement at all. It may, nevertheless, be the forerunner of some future scheme of reciprocity of insurance between the two countries, under the wider powers provided in the Act. We have long had this object in view but under the current Act it has not yet proved possible to effect such agreements. Whether they be secured or not, this Bill does at any rate give us the opportunity of introducing a scheme under which practical expression can be given to the very real debt of gratitude which we in this country feel to these gallant men who served us so faithfully in His Majesty's Forces during the war. There is nothing at all in this Bill, I think, which can be in any way contentious, and I ask that it be given a Second Reading.