HL Deb 12 March 1946 vol 140 cc64-76
LORD SEMPILL

had the following Notice on the Paper: To ask His Majesty's Government why licences to import Canary Islands tomatoes are still withheld; to draw attention to the fact that all sections of the British fruit and vegetable trade are willing to take the sole risk of importing on the Canary Islands authorities' terms the 25,000 tons awaiting shipment to Britain, for which they were specially grown; that many tons are rotting away as a result of the present inaction; that the trade is willing to accept these terms as a precedent for the importation of Colonial and Continental products; that great hardship is caused by the refusal to deal equitably with importers without selling premises, and that as a consequence quantities of fruit and vegetables may be denied the British public; and to move for Papers.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, much has happened since several weeks ago the Motion now before your Lordships was set down on the Order Paper. There has been considerable agitation on the "tomato front." The first part of the Motion that I have the honour to submit deals with licences to import tomatoes and arrangements as between importers and exporters. Your Lordships will have seen that on February 27th the Minister of Food announced that licences to import tomatoes from the Canary Islands were to be granted, and your Lordships, too, will have noted with considerable satisfaction that the first cargo of tomatoes is on the high seas and will arrive at one of the ports in England this week. So far so good, my Lords. But why this long delay in bringing so essential a food as the tomato to our table? What has happened to the bulk of this season's crop which we used to consume between the months of November and April or May in pre-war years? Where are the tomatoes that were grown during this season that is now moving rapidly to a close? The importance of any matter that relates to food cannot, I suggest, he overstressed, and in particular is this so with tomatoes since there has been a failure to secure this valuable commodity that was grown in the Canary Islands for the British Market.

May I remind you that the Minister of Food very properly encouraged this affair and indicated to growers in the Canary Islands on July 31 last that importation would be arranged for commencing from November of last year. A month before that date and many months before the present season opened I drew the atten- tion of my noble friend Lord Llewellin (then the Minister of Food) to the tomato potential, in which he expressed a very keen interest and gave instructions that the matter should be fully considered and asked me to lodge with the Ministry all the information that I had. Such, my Lords, was done and, as your Lordships know, licence have been granted an the first cargo of tomatoes is coming along. How vital is the need for such a food? Had it been possible, my noble friend Lord Harder would have been here to stress the dietetic side of this question, but the noble Viscount, Lord Bledisloe, and the noble Lord, Lord Hankey, will deal rather fully with this side of which they have made a special study. Your Lordships will, I think, remember that. Dr. Franklin Bicknell said quite recently: At the end of six years of permanent malnutrition the situation is getting worse daily. The housewife is suffering more and more from malnutrition, with all its attendant symptoms of bad temper, inefficiency and strain. It has been emphasized in previous debates in your Lordships' House that the unbalance that is now so much a feature of all affairs to-day must be attributed to a large extent to a diet which is deficient in the essential vitamins, in calcium and other essentials. Dr. Elizabeth Gourley, the Medical Officer of the L.C.C. said quite recently: We have never had so many multiple boils, sores, rashes and scurvy patches, caused by the lack of vitamins C and D contained in fruit and fats respectively, and the lack of calcium. With regard to vitamin C we have been reduced to almost 18th century plight. The Minister of Food was good enough to write to me at the end of February, some hours before leaving for the United States, and suggested that, since he had arranged to re-issue licences to import Canary Islands tomatoes, perhaps the Motion might be withdrawn. I greatly appreciate the Minister's letter. In the letter the Minister pointed out that it was his duty to take the greatest care to see that perishables like tomatoes were shipped in such fashion that they arrived as near as possible undamaged and that they were bought "upon terms which will take from us as little as possible of our limited stock of foreign currency." The Minister also said that he had hoped to get better terms for the purchase of Canary Island tomatoes, but in order to avoid a further delay he had decided to accept the new terms and let the tomatoes come in.

No mention was made in the Minister's letter in regard to the last part of the Motion before your Lordships touching the hardship that will be caused to the importers without selling premises as a result of the Order of October, 1945, which altered the Emergency Powers Order of April 7, 1941, which merely confirmed the existing practice known as the A. B. C. D.—exporter, importer, wholesaler and retailer—and introduced a new figure into this cycle in the person of the first-hand salesman. Since the Minister was on his way to the United States when I received his letter, I wrote at some length to the Parliamentary Secretary, pointing out this omission. The honourable member, Dr. Edith Summerskill, wrote on March 7, and said that she was causing inquiries to be made about the matters I had raised, and would let me know. Perhaps at the termination of this debate we shall hear from the noble Lord replying for His Majesty's Government the result of these deliberations. Your Lordships will be well aware of the keen interest which Dr. Summer-skill takes in such matters. Recently she said: I know that one of the finest ways of rehabilitating a country is feeding the people plentifully and well. We are not withholding anything from you. So we may infer that the Parliamentary Secretary is in full sympathy with the idea of importing without delay the maximum amount of tomatoes.

The Minister in his letter said he wanted to be sure the best terms were obtained. The Ministry of Food announced on July 31 last that the importation of tomatoes from the Canary Islands would be resumed when the season started, on November 1, and continued until the middle of May. Nothing further, however, was heard from the Ministry until the middle of December, when the Minister, in a statement to the Press, stressed the desirability of obtaining tomatoes without delay. In those days there surely can be no doubt at all that terms were not only actively under consideration by the Ministry but under discussion with the exporters and the importers.

The terms on which tomatoes are being imported were fixed between the respect- tive Governments in December of last year, and yet we see no tomatoes until the end of March, nearly the end of the season. The importers have been successful in persuading the exporters to give them terms which are more advantageous than of old. The terms now in force do not call on the importers, as did the terms before the war, to pay 100 per cent. f.o.b. Las Palmas or Teneriffe, but 85 per cent., the remaining 15 per cent. or a portion thereof being dependent on damage to the cargo and being assessed at the port of unloading in England. The introduction of the middleman, who receives a 5 per cent. commission, plus 6d. a packet, weighing approximately 25 lbs., is really not necessary, since the A. B. C. D. arrangement already referred to will now the war is over work very well. So why disturb it? My noble friend Lord Woolton, who has unique experience in these matters, may, I hope, feel disposed to say a word or two on this question, because he knows only too well that the result of the introduction of this firsthand salesman is to cause delay and increase the price to the consumer. It is ridiculous to suggest that whatever may have been found desirable in time of war, when the Government was the sole purchaser but had no distribution organization, should apply to the circumstances of to-day.

The present arrangement reacts most unfairly, as I said before, on the bulk of the importers, who in the past have borne their share of the heat and burden of the day. The bulk of them have not got selling premises, since they have been accustomed to make adequate arrangements with the wholesalers so that there was a minimum of delay and also the minimum of cost involved in the goods reaching the retailer. The present situation favours such few importers as there are who have selling premises and enables them not only to secure the fair profit that falls to the importer and to the wholesaler, but in addition an extra profit, a third profit, that is now to be paid to the newly introduced first-hand salesman. This arrangement is not one which is required. It adds to the price the consumer has to pay.

The Ministry have not seen to it that their actions kept pace with their words. Your Lordships will remember that they have stressed time and time again the need for the obtaining of tomatoes, and have encouraged the Canary Islands tomato growers, but their lack of planning has been so outstanding that without exaggeration 35,000 to 40,000 tons of this season's tomatoes have been lost to this country. Just consider the fact that the Ministry in November had four ships in the Canary Islands, two at Las Palmas, and two at Teneriffe, and these ships were sent for the sole purpose of bringing back cargoes of tomatoes. There they lay for three or four weeks, and they came away empty. There was no lack of tomatoes—the ships could have been filled—but there was a complete absence of planning. There can be no doubt at all that the terms which could have been negotiated at that time with the exporters would have varied very little from the terms which are now in force, which, as I reminded your Lordships, were fixed in December last year.

Surely it is small wonder that the Prime Minister of Australia, speaking in the House of Representatives a few days ago, relative to food for Britain, said according to The Times report: The difficulty all along has been to know just what is wanted. There has been so much vagueness, and such a mass of official contradiction, that incalculable opportunities have been lost already, and the latest statement from the Ministry of Food does little to clear the air. I beg to move for Papers.

6.9 p.m.

VISCOUNT BLEDISLOE

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Sempill, who has just delivered to us a most interesting and informative speech, in regard to the shipment of tomatoes from the Canaries, has asked me to say a word in support of the appeal which he has made. So far as the dietetic value of tomatoes is concerned, this is, of course, beyond dispute. Not only is the tomato of high feeding value, but of course its therapeutic value is probably greater, with the possible exception of onions, than any fruit or vegetable we raise in this or any other country. I know nothing whatever about the trade conditions under which this importation was contemplated, but I venture to say, in the light of what the noble Lord has just said, that if there were actually ships in the harbours of the Canaries waiting with a view to shipping large quantities of tomatoes, lying there in the wharves, ready for shipment to this country, and which eventually sailed away with empty ships' bottoms, in the face of the present appalling shortage of food it is surely nothing short of a crime that these tomatoes should not have been carried to Great Britain or some other part of starving Europe.

I am reminded of an instance which perhaps my noble friend Lord Woolton will remember when, as Chairman of the Empire Canners' Council, then concerned in the shipment of various canned foods, particularly fruit and fish and some vegetables from our various Dominions, some three years ago, I went with a deputation from the Empire Canners' Council to meet Lord Woolton and drew attention to the fact that there were large quantities of canned fruits and, fish and jam awaiting shipment from South Africa and that ships were actually leaving the ports with little or no cargo bemuse the consignors of other commodities had not sent these commodities in time before the departure of those ships. To our very great delight he gave a very emphatic order that that sort of thing must never occur again during the war, but that those who had valuable food cargoes that they were able to ship should be entitled with his authority to ship these foods from those South African ports. Surely something of the same sort ought to have happened with regard to these tomatoes awaiting shipment from the Canary Islands.

I would only add in conclusion that I do venture to hope that the Minister of Food, in the face of the prospective shortage of foods of high nutrition value, will make a special appeal to grow such vegetables as tomatoes and onions in our gardens and allotments to the utmost capacity during the next two years. Given a favourable season (in 1941, 1942, and 1943 we had the most remarkable ripening conditions for tomatoes all over this country) we might as a result of such an appeal very substantially augment our own production of this very valuable vegetable, to the increase of our food and to the enhancement of our national health.

6.12 p.m.

LORD HANKEY

My Lords, earlier in the afternoon on my noble friend Lord Vansittart's Motion we were discussing one aspect of security, and now on my noble friend Lord Sempill's Motion we are discussing another security question, for tomatoes are a valuable protec- tion to human health. In view of the lateness of the hour I shall confine myself to the role assigned to me by the noble Lord who has raised this question, but I cannot pretend to understudy for Lord Horder who is a much greater expert than I. I will deal with the question not fully but as briefly as I can. I turn to the excellent Manual of Nutrition which was published by the Ministry of Food in 1945, and there I find that a proper supply of all vitamins is necessary for an adequate diet. They give three. The first is Vitamin A, which is found in dairy produce and eggs and in vegetable foods. Among vegetable foods are tomatoes which with 288 international units per ounce come fifth in the vegetable list. Next comes Vitamin B. I need not say much about that because I believe we are quite secure in Vitamin B since the Government had the wisdom during my absence in foreign parts to return to the 85 per cent. bread.

LORD WOOLTON

It was not wisdom. It was a matter of compulsion.

LORD HANKEY

If I am in order, I should like to congratulate the Government on that action. My only regret is that they did not seize the opportunity to spread the good news to our countrymen that they were at any rate going to receive a much more wholesome bread. The third vitamin mentioned was Vitamin C, and that occurs mainly in fruit and vegetables including the tomato which, with seven milligrammes per ounce is tenth in the fruit and vegetable list. According to the same authority, if insufficient Vitamin C is provided, the growth of children will be checked, the gums and mouth will become susceptible to infection (our old friend the question of teeth), the healing of wounds and fractures becomes slower, and in the last resort the final result is the appearance of scurvy. Vitamin C is on the whole, I understand, the hardest of the three to obtain in sufficient quantities. We need every scrap of Vitamin C that we can get. Some of the best sources of it like oranges, grapefruit and lemons are always in rather short supply. Some others like black currants, which is the best of all, are seasonal, and they usually have to be reserved for children, so that that makes the question of tomatoes all the more important. There is one other reason why tomatoes are so important Unfortunately Vitamin C is easily destroyed by cooking, but tomatoes are one of the fruits which most people are quite ready to eat in a raw state, so that you can get away easily from that disadvantage. Also it is an extremely popular form of food.

From these remarks it will be seen how important it is to keep open any source of tomatoes that exists, particularly at this time of the year when Vitamin C is short. That is why the alleged delay in granting licences in the Canary Islands is peculiarly regrettable. I recognize for my part that food control is unavoidable at present and likely to remain so for some time to come. It must obviously be very difficult for the Ministry to keep in touch with all the vagaries of the markets of so many essential foodstuffs. The only safe rule seems to be to work as much as possible through the ordinary trade channels. I do not pretend to know the intricacies of this particular trade, but I understand from my noble friend that this rule has been neglected in the case of tomatoes, and that one important element in the machinery, namely, the "pure" importers who were responsible for the importation of the majority of the Canary Islands tomatoes in normal times, were excluded from acting as first-hand salesmen by this Order which was issued in October, which created a new firsthand salesman and gave him great advantages, but resulted in a failure to get the food to the markets. Whatever is said about this in the past, I do hope that we shall receive adequate assurances from the Front Bench about the future so as to ensure that nothing of the kind takes place in the case of any of the produce containing Vitamin C that will be coming forward in the countries adjacent to our islands.

6.9 p.m.

LORD WOOLTON

My Lords, may I intervene for one moment? We have had a marvellous investigation into the value of tomatoes this afternoon. I am looking forward with very great pleasure to the time when once again I may be able to eat one. But that is not what I thought we were going to discuss. I thought we were going to discuss this Motion which on the whole seems to me to deal with something other than the value of tomatoes. I think we can take the value of tomatoes for granted. I support everything that the noble Lord who has just spoken has said as to their value from a health point of view. We like them, too—which is important. I could not form a judgment on this issue without foreknowledge, and that I am sure we shall gain from the noble Lord who will reply. I should just like to say this, however. During the period of the war, when exchange was difficult, when shipping was difficult, when we really could place no reliance on the ordinary channels of distribution being in existence, it was necessary for the Government to determine things. I hope the time will come—and I am sure noble Lords on the other side would take this view, too, certainly regarding perishable things like tomatoes—when we shall abandon that machinery.

We did get very ample supplies of tomatoes before the war. They were brought in at the risk of people in this country who, for the most part, put their money into the concerns of the growers and of the planters overseas. Sometimes the risk was not a good one. But, as a result of taking the risk, they certainly brought a very large number of tomatoes to this country. I wonder whether His Majesty's Government and the Minister do not consider that the time has come when we need not bother so much about an orderly marketing of tomatoes, a precise definition of "first salesman," "second salesman" "and" "importer," but that it should be left to the trade, putting on a ceiling price so that the public cannot, in a time of scarcity, be robbed. I think this may be one of the places in which Government regulation might be cut down a little. I would beg the Minister not to let regulation interfere with us getting the food, and it looks in this case as though it has done so. That is all I wish to contribute to this debate.

6.23 p.m.

LORD AMMON

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord who has just spoken for his statement, which has helped me somewhat. As to the remarks made by the noble Lord who preceded him regarding dietetic value and that sort of thing, I do not propose to follow them at any length. We concede all that right away, but it is hardly indicated in the Motion on the Paper. I make only one aside of my own. While not disputing at all Lord Hankey's pronouncement as to the great advantage of 85 per cent. wheat in the bread, I, for one, do not like it; therefore it seems to me that discounts all the dietetic value so far as I am concerned, and I imagine there are a good many more who look at it from the same point of view.

Turning to the Motion on the Paper, I think the noble Lord, Lord Sempill, who opened this debate, must not have been completely in touch with the circumstances and the conditions obtaining in this particular trade. The noble Lord, Lord Woolton, remarked that he hoped we would entirely abandon the machinery. To a large extent one would agree with that. He said, "Leave it to the trade," but he himself set out with the idea—and I am sure he would not desire to depart from it—that the one thing we wanted to do was to preserve the trade, and that those agencies which operated legitimately before in handling the trade should be kept in being. He knows there were a large number of people concerned with it who were not actually the owners, nor did they at any time handle or touch the produce. They were commission agents. They had no premises on this side. It was felt that that should not continue during the period of the war and the period of stringency which now exists. The Ministry have always maintained that position having regard to the limited supplies, as it would add very considerably to costs, to say nothing of the difficulties.

Now there is no lack whatever of adequate machinery, proper to the trade, for the distribution of tomatoes as and when they arrive in this country. The difficulty arises largely before then. Lord Sempill was not quite right when he said, for instance, that the payment of eighty-five per cent, was laid clown, fifteen per cent. being left to cover losses, damage, etc. That is not at all an accurate description of the position. The Spanish Government decreed that tomatoes should be sold at a firm price—that is to say, that without any regard whatever to selling price here there should be an agreement made with, them by the person directly dealing with them, at a fixed price from which there should be no departure. They decreed, too, that eighty-five per cent. of the cost should be paid on shipment.

I may mention, by the way, that the traders at first refused to handle the shipments on those conditions, and the import licences were withdrawn. After some discussion, there was a slight reduction obtained to the extent of 5 per cent., and the traders picked up the matter again. It is found, however, that in trades dealt with like this, particularly those dealt with through the Spanish Government who are mostly concerned, most of the goods are severely damaged, to the extent, sometimes, of as much as 50 per cent. of the whole commitment. The produce is more particularly open to that damage when it is sold in this manner, where there are no people dealing with it in a proper manner and where the exporters are not responsible for the goods until sold. That is one of the things which has to be borne in mind when one is considering this matter.

LORD WOOLTON

If it does not embarrass the noble Lord, may I ask if it is true, then, that the Spanish Government insist on a flat price regardless of the qualities?

LORD AMMON

That is the difficulty which I am trying to impress upon the House. The Spanish Government themselves have decreed the price. Therefore we, on this side, have had to have regard to our sterling and the dollar exchange, and we cannot accept what really amounts to almost a kind of blackmail: "Either you have got to have them at our price or you do not have them at all. What is more, you not only have them like that, but you have them under the conditions under which we choose to send them, without your having any word in it."

That is the difficulty in which we find ourselves. Although the Ministry of Food are anxious to get as much food as possible into this country, they do not intend to do so on any terms foreign exporters may try to extort. They have laid down rules for ensuring, as far as possible, that the proportion of waste is low, and for limiting the expediture of foreign currency what is absolutely necessary. It is quite true, as has been said by two noble Lords, that ships did lie in port empty, waiting for cargo, and that our Government had secured space in those ships, but, to use a colloquialism, the Spanish Government grew tough and put up the price. The British Government refused to submit to that, but after nego- tiation, knowing the need for foodstuffs in this country, particularly of the dietetic value of tomatoes, they had to give way. They secured a concession to the extent of five per cent. of the amount to be paid before shipment. Still, they were pretty harshly treated. That is all that lies behind the whole business in this particular connexion.

So far as the distributors are concerned, the Government have followed all along the line that has been laid down. From the beginning it has been the policy of successive Ministers of Food to distribute through the existing channels of trade. Nobody would know better than the noble Lord, Lord Woolton, that probably there is a bigger margin in the vegetable and fruit trade than in any other trade, and therefore they have to take steps to keep it within proper and reasonable limits, which also has a tremendous effect on price. There is nothing to hide; the Government are willing and anxious to buy everything they possibly can at reasonable prices in the ordinary way, but they refuse to be held to ransom in this particular manner, particularly as they have no guarantee under the conditions that have prevailed hitherto that, even at the increased price that is demanded from them, they are going to get food which will be quite fit for consumption. That, I submit, is the answer.

6.32 p.m.

LORD SEMPILL

My Lords, time is getting on, and your Lordships have other things to do this afternoon, so I will not detain you more than one minute. I thank the noble Lord for his interesting reply. I am sorry that he has not time to deal with this question of the normal procedure, and the doing away with this recently injected first-hand salesman. I should like to take this opportunity of thanking the noble Lords who have supported me in this matter. I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.

Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.