§ 3.22 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF ROSEBERY asked His Majesty's Government whether, having regard to the recent statement that the Government have always been anxious that Scotland should take its part in the operation of air ser- 1079 vices, Scottish representatives will be appointed as members of the Board of the British European Airways Corporation and the Board of the British Overseas Airways Corporation. The noble Earl said: My Lords, in asking the question which is down on the Paper to-day I will only detain your Lordships for a minute or two. First of all, I am quite sure your Lordships will acquit me of any discourtesy towards the noble Lord, Lord Winster, in asking this question in his absence. It was put down long before he left for New Zealand and whoever replies on behalf of His Majesty's Government will have had ample time to ascertain Lord Winster's views on this matter. It may be within the recollection of your Lordships that on February 14 last, in a speech here, the noble Lord, Lord Winster, announced that the Government had always been anxious that Scotland should take its part in the operation of air services. I am suggesting very small things for them to do to show how anxious they are for Scotland to take its part.
§ Your Lordships will remember that in the White Paper on British Air Services it was explained that the lay-out was as follows. The existing B.O.A.C. would have the routes between the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries, the United States and the Far East; the British European Airways Corporation would have the routes between the United Kingdom and the Continent and the internal routes in the United Kingdom; and the British South American Airways Corporation would have the routes between the United Kingdom and South America. The routes of the last-mentioned Corporation do not pass through Scotland in any way and I am not asking for Scottish representation on it. B.O.A.C. has already used Prestwick, and if your Lordships remember, under my noble friend Viscount Swinton's proposal the European traffic to Scandinavia was reserved to Scottish operators. I think I am asking for very little in asking that only one Scottish representative should be on each of these two other Corporations.
§ Important statutory committees and other bodies constituted on a United Kingdom basis normally include a proportion of Scotsmen. It is indeed essential that they should do so because, as the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack knows, 1080 we have entirely different laws in a great many ways in Scotland. During the war, in the drawing up of legal documents for purchases or other affairs like that, it was often entirely forgotten in England that there were these different laws in Scotland and that things which seemed quite simple down here were difficult or impossible to arrange under the legal system up there. I can say from my own personal knowledge—I see a noble Lord over there is smiling—that when I was Regional Commissioner I frequently had to send down to London to say that a Defence Regulation was totally impracticable up in Scotland; it was against the laws of the land up there, and would have to be amended in its relation to Scotland.
§ There are other reasons why we should have representation. We, as your Lordships are in England, are very jealous of the amenities of our country. We want someone on the Corporations who can represent us and tell the Corporations whether a particular design or operation would be acceptable to us or not. Finally, we want to make quite sure that, whatever work is done on these aerodromes and buildings is done by Scottish workmen. We have more unemployment arising in Scotland than down here, and it is essential for us always to keep in mind that we must have a Scot on the Corporations to look after these unemployed people and to see that they get the work which is so necessary. I do not want it to be thought in the least that this is a defeatist question which I am asking. I still hope that we shall have a Scottish Corporation for Scotland, but I believe that until we have that, so long as the Government are wedded to this present policy, it is essential that we should be represented on these two Corporations.
§ 3.28 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF GLASGOWMy Lords, may I intervene for a moment? I wish I could agree entirely with my noble friend's suggestion, but I cannot quite do so. I could, however, agree with him on one condition, and that is that Scotland is not renouncing her claim to control her own air services. I cannot say that I want very much to see Scotsmen sitting on Boards in London, when they might be running Scottish air services from Edinburgh. In every case except the air I want to see a United Kingdom. There is too much concentration in London and I should like to see some relief of the 1081 congestion which still hangs over the capital like a dead hand and which stifles enterprise and initiative. If we are not going to get what I hope we shall get, then I think the noble Earl's proposal is a good one, and if we have Scotsmen on the Boards they will certainly help to safeguard Scottish interests.
§ 3.29 p.m.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I will, with the permission of your Lordships, answer this question. The composition of the Boards in question is under consideration and the noble Earl's suggestion will be brought to the notice of my noble friend the Minister of Civil Aviation on his return to this country. I am quite sure that the two noble Earls will not expect me to make any observations on the points they have raised this afternoon, but I will undertake to see they are brought to my noble friend the Minister's attention when he returns to this country. Perhaps the noble Earl will raise this matter again on a day following my noble friend's return.
§ 3.30 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, may I intervene for one moment? I appreciate the difficulty that the noble Lord is in in answering for another department but, on the other hand, this is a disappointing answer. This matter was raised not only in my noble friend's question but in the debate at which the Minister was present. I understood the Minister then to say that he had had it under consideration to have a special regional board for Scotland. What I want to emphasize is that it is really very important to give Scotland proper representation. We are now going into an era in which there will be only these three companies. I am not going, on this occasion certainly, to argue the rightness or the wrongness of that, but I think everybody felt that whatever system was followed, Scotland should have a fair opportunity and should be satisfied that she was being properly served.
At this moment the airways which are running in Scotland are run—I think that I am right in saying this, my noble friend the Earl of Rosebery will correct me if I am wrong—by boards which are very largely Scottish boards. There are on on those boards, I understand, people who are skilled in traffic management, and who know what the needs of Scotland 1082 are. Those boards, I believe, are giving great satisfaction. If you are going to sweep all that away, then it is really essential that in this new sealed-pattern organization which the Government insist on setting up, they shall not only give Scotland good service—that is, that Whitehall shall serve Scotland adequately—but that Scotland shall be satisfied that her claims and needs are known and understood and will receive due attention.
THE EARL OF MANSFIELDMy Lords, in further reference to what the noble Lord on the Government Bench has said, surely it is rather extraordinary—if one interprets his remarks as I interpret them—that Scotland's share in these Boards is to be dependent on the whim of one Minister, the Minister of Civil Aviation, instead of being freely given—as is her right—by Cabinet decision.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, I think the noble Viscount appreciates the difficulty in which I find myself. In the circumstances I really cannot promise your Lordships more than that I will bring to the notice of the Minister and of the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, the observations which have been made in the course of this short discussion.
§ THE EARL OF ROSEBERYMy Lords, the noble Lord who 'has replied for the Government has asked me to bring this question up again. I assure him that: I shall do so at the earliest possible moment, and shall then move for Papers. I would like to point out to, my noble friend the Earl of Glasgow, that I have particularly said that this question was raised without any prejudice to Scottish Companies. As for the noble Lord, Lord Henderson, saying that there are difficulties which make it impossible for him to tell us very much in replying, I can only say that his reply amounts to nothing at all. I have seldom been more dissatisfied with any reply to a question.