HL Deb 19 February 1946 vol 139 cc696-701

4.12 p.m.

Amendment reported according to Order.

Clause 2:

Reference to tribunal of contracts for furnished letting.

(2) Where any contract to which this Act applies is referred to a tribunal, then, unless at any time before the tribunal have entered upon consideration of the reference it is withdrawn by the person or authority by whom it was made, the tribunal shall consider it and, after making such inquiry as they think fit, and giving to each party (and, if the house is one the general management whereof is vested in and exercisable by a housing authority, to that authority) an opportunity of being heard, or, in his option, of submitting representations in writing, shall approve the rent payable under the contract or reduce it to such sum as they may, in all the circumstances, think reasonable, or may, if they think fit in all the circumstances, dismiss the reference, and shall notify the parties and the local authority of their decision in each case.

(3) Where the rent payable for any premises has been entered in the register in accordance with the provisions hereinafter contained, it shall be lawful for the lessor or the lessee or the local authority to refer the case to the tribunal for reconsideration of the rent so entered on the ground of change of circumstances, and the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall apply on any such reference in like manner as they apply on a reference under subsection (1) of this section subject to the modification that the tribunal shall have power to increase the rent payable.

(4) An approval, reduction or increase under this section may be limited to rent payable in respect of a particular period.

VISCOUNT BUCKMASTER

had given Notice of an Amendment at the end of subsection (2), to insert: Provided that in any case where a contract to which this Act applies includes payment for services and the lessor shows to the satis- faction of the tribunal that the cost of the provision of such services has increased in respect of the house or part of a house since the date of the contract the tribunal shall, if satisfied that the rent is otherwise one which they would approve, have power to authorize the payment of the amount of such increase. The noble Viscount said: My Lords, the purpose of this Amendment is simple. It is designed to give a greater measure of justice to landlords in assessing the rent of service flats. I will not weary your Lordships with the arguments on this matter which I have done my best to put forward on other occasions. The position is extremely simple. These landlords are bound to provide these services, and, as I have said before, they can be sued in law if they do not provide them. The cost of providing these services has very materially increased. There is no need to produce any figures to prove that. A single example like the cost of coke will show how penal this burden has become. So grave an imposition has it turned out to be that there are many tenants, I am advised, who have voluntarily offered their landlords some increase in rent to cover the extra cost.

That is no reason why others who are unwilling to do this should take advantage of the position. I need only remind your Lordships that the Ridley Committee not only recommended that this matter should be dealt with, that these landlords should be entitled to recover the increased costs of these services, but they added that it was a matter of first priority. The noble Earl who has been good enough to listen to me so patiently has agreed to accept what I have proposed. His wording is other than mine but relying as I do, on his positive assurance that it gives me in substance what I am asking for, I am prepared not to press this matter. I feel sure that the noble Earl will also agree that a few days shall elapse before the Third Reading so that there may be an opportunity of considering the phraseology. I should like to take this opportunity of thanking the noble Earl, and also of thanking those noble Lords, who, while not sitting on these Benches, have of their own accord, so generously and without stint given me their support. In the circumstances I do not move.

4.12 p.m.

THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL) moved, after subsection (3), to insert: (4) Where on any reference of a contract, the rent whereunder includes payment for services, the tribunal are of opinion that it would be proper that the rent payable for the premises should include an amount in respect of increase since the third day of September, nineteen hundred and thirty-nine, in the cost of providing such services, and are also of opinion that in all the circumstances a rent higher than the rent payable under the contract might properly be chargeable for the premises in order to include an amount in respect of such increase, they may approve a rent higher by not more than such amount as they think reasonable in that respect.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, the noble Viscount opposite was good enough to let me know by letter that he could accept my Amendment and that he wanted to withdraw his own, and I am much obliged to him for doing so. In deference to the wishes of the House as expressed by several noble Lords during the discussion on the Committee stage and in accordance with the undertaking I then gave, the Government have given further consideration to the Amendment put down by the noble Viscount, Lord Buckmaster and they are prepared to accept it in principle. The Amendment I am now moving differs, as the noble Viscount has just pointed out, from the wording of his Amendment. The object of this alteration is to secure that it is an increase in the cost of services since the beginning of the war which has to be taken into account by the tribunal and that any increased rent approved by them to cover the war-time increase (which may of course relate to wages or prices) is registrable. This Amendment which I am moving would enable the tribunal if they are satisfied that it would be proper to charge a higher rent because of the increase in the cost of services since September 3, 1939, to approve such a rent raised by not more than the increased cost of the services. I very much hope that this will meet the points raised not only by the noble Viscount but by other noble Lords who spoke on the Committee stage. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 39, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Earl of Listowel.)

LORD LLEWELLIN

My Lords, as one of those who took part in the discussion on the previous stage of this Bill I should like to thank the noble Earl for the way he has met the points we made. Like the noble Viscount who originally raised this matter, I have not really had the time to consider these words fully but I have looked at them since they have been on the Order Paper and so far as I can see they fully meet the point we made and I am very much obliged to the noble Earl for the way he has met us on this matter.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

4.14 p.m.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL moved, after subsection (4), to insert: (5) Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this section a tribunal shall not be required to entertain a reference made otherwise than by the local authority if they are satisfied, having regard to the length of time elapsing since a previous reference made by the same party or to other circumstances, that the reference is frivolous or vexatious.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of this Amendment is to carry out an undertaking I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Llewellin, during the Committee stage and broadly speaking it is designed to prevent the time of the rent Tribunal from being wasted by litigious or vindictive persons. The wording is slightly different from that put down by the noble Lord opposite but I hope it will meet the case. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 41, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Earl of Listowel.)

LORD LLEWELLIN

My Lords, once again I get up to thank the noble Earl. These are not quite the same words as those I put down on the Order Paper nor, in fact, are they quite the same words as were in the noble Earl's mind to move. I think it would have been entirely wrong if the tribunal had been left with no way of dealing with having its time taken up by frivolous or vexatious applications. This gives an opportunity of dealing with vexatious persons who come before the tribunal and I am very much obliged to the noble Earl for meeting me in the way that he has.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

4.16 p.m.

Clause 12:

Interpretation and saving. services" includes attendance the Provision of heating or lighting, the supply of hot water and any other privilege or facility connected with the occupancy of a house or part of a house;

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL moved, in subsection (1), after "part of a house," to insert: not being a privilege or facility requisite for the purposes of access, cold water supply o[...] sanitary accommodation. The noble Earl said: My Lords, the object of this Amendment is to meet points raised by the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Maugham. It aims at excluding in precise terms from the services which bring contracts within the jurisdiction of a rent tribunal, such facilities as stores and passageways, water taps or lavatories which may be shared by a number of tenants living in the same building. I have discussed this Amendment with the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Maugham, who is unable to be present in his place this afternoon, and I gather from him that this meets the substance of what he wanted to achieve. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 36, at end insert ("not being a privilege or facility requisite for the purposes of access, cold water supply or sanitary accommodation").—[The Earl of Listowel.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule:

Provisions Regarding Constitution of Tribunals.

4. The Minister may appoint a clerk and such other officers and servants as he thinks fit of a tribunal, and there shall be paid to them such salaries and allowances, as the Minister, with the consent of the Treasury, may determine.

4.18 p.m.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL moved, in paragraph 4, to leave out, "The Minister," where those words first occur, and insert "A tribunal." The noble Earl said: My Lords, this proposed Amendment I have put down in order to carry out the undertaking I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Chesham, during the Committee stage. It provides that instead of the Minister himself appointing a staff, the tribunal will do so subject only to the approval of the Minister, a proviso which is obviously necessary in view of the financial responsibility of the Treasury. I hope that this meets the point of the noble Lord opposite and I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 7, line 10, leave out ("The Minister") and insert ("A tribunal").—(The Earl of Listowel.)

LORD CHESHAM

I should like to add my quota to the spate of gratitude going from this side of the House to the noble Earl who is moving these Amendments. I thank him very much for making this rather small but important Amendment to the Bill.

LORD LLEWELLIN

I think it is a great improvement that the tribunal can have power to appoint their own clerk and officers. These should not be thrust on them entirely from Whitehall and I think we are all grateful to the noble Lord behind me for raising this point as well as to the Minister for accepting it.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, with the permission of the House, in order to save time, I should like to move the next Amendments on the paper en bloc. There are three consequential Amendments and I think it would save the time of the House if I adopted that procedure.

Amendments moved—

Page 7, line 10, after the first ("and") insert (",with the approval of the Minister as to numbers,")

Page 7, line 11, leave out ("he thinks fit of a tribunal") and insert ("they think fit,")

Page 7, line 12, leave out ("them") and insert ("the clerk and other officers and servants").—(The Earl of Listowel.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.