MINISTRY OF DEFENCE BILL (Hansard, 10 December 1946)

§ VISCOUNT SWINTON

I want to put to the Leader of the House for consideration, but not for immediate answer to-day, a point arising on the drafting of Clause 1 of the Bill. I am a little worried at the words "as a whole" which are inserted in the last line but one of the clause. I think there is absolutely no difference of opinion between us in any quarter of the House as to the general purpose of this Bill. We want to give the Minister of Defence a general power over the formulation and co-ordination of all defence policy. We do not want him to do the detailed work of any of the Service Departments, and, as I understand it, these words were inserted in order to make it plain that he would not be a detailed executive Minister in respect of individual Departments.

I venture to suggest—and I have received some advice upon this—that if you leave in the words" as a whole" they might be held to limit the Minister's powers too much, and that he could deal only with matters which refer to all the three armed Services of the Crown. A matter which affected one Service only, or was the policy of one Service only, might have a very direct bearing on defence generally; and when you come to the formulation of policy or its general application it may well be that there are many problems which concern two Services but which do not concern three Services. I do not want to revive old controversies which I hope are dead and buried, but I remember one that I had for three years with the Admiralty as to whether the Admiralty should take control of all the aircraft and of all the airfields for every aircraft that could fly in any conceivable circumstances over the sea. That was a controversy between the Air Force and the Admiralty, but it called into question a most vital matter affecting the general defence policy. That ancient controversy, please God, will never be revived. There may be, however, in the future many matters coming up which affect two Services but not the third, and I venture to suggest that we ought to have in this clause the right words relating to the Minister's powers. I suggest that they should be something like this: "the formulation and 712 general application of defence policy so far as it relates to the Armed Forces of the Crown and their requirements." I do not ask for an answer now, I was only able to give the Leader of the House notice of this a few minutes ago, but I think he will agree with me that it is well worth while to look at these words in order to make quite sure that we have words that give the Minister the full powers we want him to have.

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DOMINION AFFAIRS (VISCOUNT ADDISON)

I am obliged to the noble Viscount for this valuable criticism. In his opening remarks he described the powers of the Minister of Defence correctly, and I am in accord with his description. The words "as a whole" were inserted in order to indicate, as the noble Viscount forecast, that the business of the Minister of Defence was not the detailed work connected with the administration of individual Services. I confess it had not occurred to me that they might conceivably have a limiting effect, as he suggested. I assure him that there is nothing of the kind in our desire, and we are completely at one with him. Perhaps the noble Viscount will be satisfied if I consult our legal advisers and have the matter looked into before it comes up again.