Lords Sitting of 17 May 1945

Preamble
The House met at two of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
VICTORY IN EUROPE:

  HIS MAJESTY'S REPLY TO THE ADDRESS.
  THE EARL OF CLARENDON: My Lords, I have the honour to report to your Lordships that His Majesty has appointed this day at a quarter before three o'clock to receive the Address of this House in the Royal Gallery.
  THE MINISTER OF RECONSTRUCTION (LORD WOOLTON): My Lords, I beg to suggest that the House do now adjourn during pleasure in order to proceed to the Royal Gallery. After the Royal Party have left, the Commons will withdraw first and we shall remain in our places. The Lord Chancellor will then lead the procession back to the House, if you please, and there is some business we have to do afterwards.
  House adjourned during pleasure, and proceeded to the Royal Gallery to present to His Majesty the Address of Tuesday last.
  His Majesty's Reply to the Addresses of Congratulation from Parliament, delivered to the members of both Houses, was as follows:
  My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
  "I am glad to meet you here to-day, and rejoice that the Dominions, India and the Colonies are also represented here.
  "I thank you for your loyal Addresses of congratulation on the complete victory which has been gained in Europe over the enemies which sought to enslave it. It is a victory which has been won by the efforts of all My peoples and the power of all our Allies.
  "First let us pay tribute to the men and women of our Armed Forces. Without the skill of the Commanders and
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  the courage and endurance of those whom they led, this victory would never have been won.
  "Despite all that a ruthless foe could do in attacks by sea and air, the Royal Navy, aided by the Royal Air Force and the maritime forces of the Dominions, India and the Allies, have kept the seas open. They have convoyed our Armies to every theatre of war and carried them to the assault against shores which the enemy had thought to make impregnable.
  "The Merchant Navy, by their courage and sacrifice, have moved men and weapons to all parts of the world and, with the fishing fleet, depleted by the needs of war, have brought to us a steady flow of food and supplies which has never failed.
  "The gallantry of the Army which fought in Europe against overwhelming odds in 194o and the miraculous rescue from Dunkirk will ever be remembered. In the years that followed, the Army, with the Home Guard, stood ready to defend our homes against invasion. All this time the powerful instrument was being forged which, with the Forces of the Empire and Commonwealth, at first alone and later with our Allies, drove the enemy from Africa and then, landing on the shores of Sicily and Italy, and later on the Normandy beaches, swept victoriously across Europe.
  "We are grateful to the Royal Air Force and the Dominions and Allied Air Forces. The Royal Air Force fought and won the Battle of Britain. They share with the Royal Navy and our Armies the imperishable glory of their victories. For more than five years, hand in hand with the ever-growing magnificent air power of the United States, they carried the war into the heart of Germany, and, by their massive onslaughts on the enemy's sources of supply, paved the way for victory in Europe.
  "My Armed Forces still have heavy tasks before them in the Far East, where numbers of My people are still in the power of the enemy. Already they have achieved great successes in the defence of India and the liberation of Burma. I am confident that they will carry on the war against Japan with indomitable courage and constancy

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  and help to bring it to a victorious conclusion in true comradeship with the superb Forces of the United States and other Allies.
  "At home My people have unflinchingly borne the burdens and dangers of war. The thanks and admiration of at are due to tens of millions of men and women who toiled, all at their allotted tasks, to relieve the suffering and repair the devastation caused by enemy attack. Danger could not deter My people from carrying out their daily tasks, that the life of our Nation might go on.
  "In field, factory, mine, office workshop and on the lines of transport. My people have toiled day and night in a productive effort to equip and maintain the Armed Forces. Moreover, from the earliest days of the war, they have shouldered the burden of heavy taxation and have willingly contributed their savings to the country's need.
  "Our gratitude goes out to all, and it would be unfitting to single out one type of service when all have played their part.
  "But I must specially mention the women of this country, who by their ready response to the calls of industry and the Fighting Services have added se greatly to the weight of our impact on the enemy. Let us remember too the housewives of this country, so many of Whom took into their homes mothers and children from the bombed cities and workers uprooted by the war.
  "I have done My best to discharge My duty as the Constitutional Sovereign of a free people, and in this task I have been unceasingly helped by The Queen, whose deep and active sympathy for all My subjects in pain or peril and whose firm resolve for victory have comforted Me in the darkest hours of the war.
  "We mourn the loss of all who have laid down their lives at home and abroad. The Queen and I would with to offer Our sympathy to those whom the war has stricken with the loss of their nearest and dearest. We Ourselves have suffered the keenest grief at the loss on active service of My Brother, the Duke of Kent.
  "I have felt deeply for My loyal subjects in the Channel Islands who have remained steadfast for so long under
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  enemy occupation and it gives Me joy to know that they are once again free.
  "Throughout our long struggle, all of us in this island have been strengthened and cheered by the staunch and valiant support of the peoples of the British Commonwealth and Empire overseas. My Dominions, India and My Colonies have all given generously of their man-power and material resources, and all will continue to bear their share of the exertions of the war against Japan.
  "We rejoice to acknowledge, and we shall never forget, the aid so freely and promptly given by the United States, and the brotherhood of our Armed Forces serving together in various theatres under combined commands. The splendid victories of the Soviet Union, and the courage of all those other Allies who suffered and fought with us in our common struggle against aggression, will ever be recorded in our hearts and in our history.
  "My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
  "The rebuilding of Europe will bring with it trials and difficulties which can be met and overcome if we continue to work together in faithfulness and mutual help as we have done during the war.
  "The ravages which we ourselves have suffered during the war will call for an intense creative effort by all members of the community to restore and improve the standard of living of My people.
  "The Grand Alliance of the United Nations which has brought us victory can and must continue, to ensure that the peace of the world is not again outraged and destroyed. The purposes for which the United Nations have been linked in war do not end in victory. Mankind looks forward to a time when all nations, under God's good providence, will be able to work together in mutual confidence for these exalted aims.
  "My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
  "This Palace of Westminster in which we meet to-day bears the scars of war, and you have faced unmoved the ordeals and the losses of these hard

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  years. The Queen and I have been deeply touched by your congratulations and We thank you with all Our hearts for the wise counsel and unfailing support which you have given to the Kingdom and Empire throughout the war."
  House resumed at a quarter past three o'clock.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT SIMON): My Lords, it is my duty to report that this House attended in the Royal Gallery this day and presented an Address to His Majesty and His Majesty was pleased to make a most gracious reply.

NORTH DEVON WATER BOARD BILL. [H.L.]
The King's consent signified and Bill reported from the Select Committee with Amendments.
WARRINGTON CORPORATION BILL.
Read 2a, and committed: the Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.

TREASON BILL [H.L.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (THE EARL OF MUNSTER): My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to assimilate the procedure in all cases of treason and misprision of treason to the procedure in cases of murder, and to move that it be now read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.—(The Earl of Munster.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, and to be printed.

MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (WESTON-SUPER-MARE) BILL. [H.L.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL): My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to confirm a Provisional Order of the Minister of Health relating to the borough
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of Weston-super-Mare, and to move that it be read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.(The Earl of Listowel.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, to be printed, and referred to the Examiners.

MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (DONCASTER) BILL, [H.L.]
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL: My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to confirm a Provisional Order of the Minister of Health relating to the county borough of Doncaster, and to move that it be read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.(The Earl of Listowel.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, to be printed, and referred to the Examiners.

BURMA.
3.18 p.m.
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL THE EARL OF LISTOWEL rose to move, That this House approves the continuance in force of the Proclamation issued under Section 139 of the Government of Burma Act, 1935, by the Governor of Burma on 10th December, 1942, a copy of which was presented to this House on the 9th of February, 1943.
The noble Earl said: My Lords, Section 139 of the Government of Burma Act provides that if a situation has arisen in which the Government of Burma cannot be carried on in accordance with the provisions of the Act which, of course, included the operation of a Burmese Legislature, the Governor may, by Proclamation, take over the legislative and executive powers vested under the Act in any other authority, and exercise these functions himself. As a result of the occupation of the greater part of Burma by the Japanese, it became impossible to govern the country in accordance with the provisions of the Act and the Governor of Burma assumed all the functions of Government from December 9, 1942.
Section 139 also provides that a Proclamation issued by the Governor shall continue in force for a period of six months. After that, the Resolution of both Houses of Parliament is required to

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approve its continuation in operation for further periods of twelve months, subject to a total period of three years. As war conditions still do not permit a resumption of Parliamentary government in Burma, a further Resolution is now necessary to prolong the validity of the existing Proclamation. I should like to add, for the information of the House, that a statement of policy in Burma will be laid before Parliament as a White Paper by His Majesty's Government before the Whitsun Recess. In order to carry this policy into effect, legislation to make certain temporary provisions with regard to the future Government of Burma will be required, and a Bill will be introduced in due course.
Moved, That this House approves the continuance in force of the Proclamation issued under Section 139 of the Government of Burma Act, 1935, by the Governor of Burma on l0th December, 1942, a copy of which was presented to this House on the 9th of February, 1943.—(The Earl of Listowel.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

NATIONAL LOANS BILL.
3.20 p.m.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a second time. The Bill consists of only two operative clauses, the first of which is strictly on the lines of others with which we have been engaged for several years past. The object of Clause I is to renew for the financial year 1945–46 the borrowing powers originally conferred on the Treasury by the National Loans Act, 1939, and since renewed annually by successive National Loans Acts. It is, of course, inconceivable that we should require to borrow to the full extent of these powers, since a large part of our supply expenditure is covered by revenue; but there must be some statutory limit to the Treasury powers and there is no logical limit short of the total amount of supply and the margin of £250,000,000 which is provided, because actual supply and expenditure in any year must take place in that year. Therefore it is necessary to have a margin as we pass over from one year to another.
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Clause 2 is a clause of a novel character. This clause extends the powers of trustee savings banks to invest in national loans, and I think even in the circumstances of to-day I should very briefly state what this involves. A trustee savings bank normally has two departments. There is first the "ordinary department," where the deposits received must be handed over to the National Debt Commissioners for investment through the Savings Bank Fund and where the depositors receive a fixed rate of interest of 2½ per cent. Secondly, there is the "special investments department," where the deposits received are invested by the bank itself in a variety of ways and the rate of interest depends, from time to time, on what the bank can afford to pay. The rate is generally rather higher than 2½ per cent. A common rate at present is 2¾ per cent. But in making the investments for its "special investments department" a bank is subject to the control of the National Debt Commissioners and to various statutory provisions.
The effect of this legislation is that a bank may invest its special investment moneys (a) up to any amount in Government securities maturing not more than three years, or in other securities maturing not more than one year, from the date of investment, or in securities repayable on notice of not more than six months; (b) in local authority or Northern Ireland Government securities maturing for payment within fifteen years; and (c) in Government securities maturing for payment within thirty years. But the existing Statute Law contains a limit within which these operations are authorized, and without going into detail I may say that the amount under (b) and (c) together, excluding those falling under (a), shall not exceed 4o per cent. of the bank's special investment receipts.
What has happened during the war is that trustee savings banks have invested with the Treasury all the increase in their special investment deposits, and as a result some banks have reached the 40 per cent. limit to which I have just referred. We have also prolonged the period of what are called the tap issues beyond the thirty-year limit. It is desired by everybody that all trustee savings banks shall—no doubt, within limits—be able to continue to support the war loans which the Treasury issues under

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the National Loans Act. There is another influence at work in the same direction. I may remind your Lordships that a few weeks ago, I think on my proposal, we adopted an important Bill which centralized borrowing by local authorities in the Local Loans Fund, more profitably, and regulated the way by which local authorities can help themselves, on cheap terms, to the money they want. That means that there will be very little scope for trustee savings banks to take up new securities issued by local authorities.
If your Lordships will look at subsection (1) of Clause 2, you will see that it extends the maturity limit from thirty to forty years. Subsection (2) extends the
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limit of 40 per cent. so as to meet this new situation. The matter is of very great importance, and I need hardly say that the trustee savings banks and all the authorities of all kinds who are concerned have been consulted. This Bill comes from the House of Commons, where it has been accepted without alteration, and it is of course commended to the House with the authority of the Treasury. I beg to move that the Bill be now given a Second Reading.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the whole House.
House adjourned at twenty-five minutes past three o'clock.