§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, when our proceedings were interrupted by the ancient and impressive ceremony of which we have just been the witnesses, I was directing the attention of your Lordships to the difference between the Social Services dealing with problems and symptoms in the mass and the human services of welfare that look at the difficulties and anxieties of the individual, and I had mentioned that Army welfare had covered a large part of the field of welfare in the sense in which I have used it this afternoon. I had pointed out to your Lordships that Army welfare related naturally to those in the Services and their immediate families, while Citizens' Advice Bureaux, which have been doing such admirable work since the outbreak of war, have directed their energies to the generality of citizens. Neither in the case of Army Welfare nor of the Citizens' Advice Bureaux must it be assumed that the standard is all of an equal excellence—there are differences in quality—but taking it by and large I think it may fairly be claimed that the kind of service to which I have referred has been dealt with not altogether inadequately. I am certain it has had a marked effect upon the morale of the country. In the Forces an anxious soldier is an inefficient and a disgruntled soldier. In the factories, an anxious workman is an inefficient and disgruntled workman. And it is the function both of the Army Welfare Organization within its sphere, and of the Citizens' Advice Bureaux within theirs, to alleviate anxiety.
500 But be it noted that both the Welfare Organization of the Army and the Citizens' Advice Bureaux are manned almost wholly by voluntary personnel, who are making their contribution, in this kind of service both to the Armed Forces and to the civilian population, as their work in relation to the war. When the hostilities cease it may be assumed that these voluntary workers, who are in the Forces or who are now manning the Citizens' Advice Bureaux, will demobilize themselves, and that the greater part of the organizations will, the moment the "Cease fire" blows, be dissipated into thin air, so that just when the need is greatest the machine is likely to stop work. That is almost inevitable by reason of force of circumstances. So far at least as the Citizens' Advice Bureaux are concerned, they are operated by professional people who are not so busy during the war as they are largely during peace-time, and who are prepared in war-time to make a sacrifice of time and energy, which will not be possible in peace-time, to devote themselves to this work. Much of the personnel of the Citizens' Advice Bureaux is composed of women skilled in social work, and admirably they have performed the tasks with which they have been confronted. But their husbands will be coming home from the war; they will return to their homes to pursue the ordinary avocations of normal life. It is vital that when the Armistice arrives there should be a machine ready, not later than at that moment of time, to take the places of the Army Welfare Organization and of the Citizens' Advice Bureaux, and to perform the functions which they, during hostilities, have been performing.
In general terms, as I have said, the wants and needs of Snooks are simple—family, home, job. During the war the absence of these things, because of mobilization, evacuation, training, bombing, transfers, lost livelihoods, and lost careers, is accepted. The motto of these people is: "We can take it." But they have accepted this condition of affairs as temporary. As soon as the war ends there will be a change. Snooks will look, when he comes back, for the restoration of his familiar life; he will not be able to wait, and he will not agree to wait, for long-term programmes to mature. He will want his family reassembled, his home rebuilt, himself and his family reemployed. He will want social security, 501 but much more than that, family life and economic independence. This period immediately after the Armistice, starting from the moment when the "Cease fire" blows, will be the Critical Period—"Critical" with a capital C, and "Period" with a capital P. It will be far more critical at home than anything which we have had to endure or can foresee during the actual period of hostilities. It is the period of crisis, social and political. The attitude of all the returned Snookses will be determined—by what? By the presence or absence of adequate welfare arrangements.
It is really a problem, as I have indicated, of individual resettlement and welfare, a problem for which some one Minister and some one Department must be directly responsible. It is an immediate human problem of material comfort, of family life and, above all, of relief from anxiety. It is a problem made up almost entirely, not of average cases, but of special cases. It is not anybody's problem but Snooks's, problem. There is some kind of parallel in what has happened during the war, and that parallel may be found in the organization set up in London drying the period of severe air raids to care for the homeless and to rationalize and centralize the activities of ill the various Departments concerned with the effects of the bombardment of London and to focus in the same organization the invaluable services of the great range of voluntary societies.
Looked at from Snooks's point of view, what is wanted is somewhere to which he can go to find out everything he wants to know about the process of resettlement and restoration. We need one single agency instead of a host of varied, impersonal Departments. We want an agency where he can find out about the re-assembly of his family, their transport, their accommodation, their employment, their food, their house, their furniture, their tools, the re-starting of their businesses. There will be no question of overlapping. Such an organization will be rather a focus to turn a spotlight on what is being done for every bewildered returning Snooks as he seeks aid and comfort. Essentially, it will be on the spot. It will Le where Snooks himself is, and where Snooks's problems are. I have given some thought to what sort of organization this should be. I do not wish in any way to be thought dogmatic, but my 502 mind turns in the direction of a Ministerial Department of secondary rank, perhaps subordinate to the Ministry of Labour, or, when it is formed later, the Ministry of Social Security; or it might, if thought preferable, be a Statutory Commission or Statutory Board, related to some such Ministry. The inspiration of such an organization would be central, but its life would be local, on the spot. Sir William Beveridge, in paragraph 397 of his Report, contemplates that it will be necessary in each locality to have something in the nature of a local inquiry office to do the kind of work which is involved in answering inquiries. What I contemplate is not merely a local inquiry office but a local welfare centre, which would be much more than an inquiry office.
There is, however, no reason in the world why, when the Beveridge scheme comes into operation, and if this recommendation is adopted, his inquiry office and my welfare centre should not be amalgamated, with the same personnel and under the same roof. The welfare centres would give active help as well as being inquiry offices. They would be the channels through which all the facilities for resettlement, temporary and permanent, are directed towards individual men and women and individual families. The Department of Welfare would not be a spending Department in its own right, but a channel of spending. Through it Snooks and his family might obtain active help as well as advice in the purchase of a new home, new furniture, new tools, a new business. He will obtain the help he needs if his normal family life is to be restarted, if his family is to be reintegrated and if war-time dislocation is to be ended. I will give one example only. A scheme might well be worked out now in conjunction with the building societies for the provision of cheap accommodation of a suitable type. Many immediate difficulties will arise for which temporary expedients must be found. Temporary facilities might be planned now for temporary accommodation, together with temporary facilities for feeding, cooking, education, employment and so on. All these needs will arise when Snooks comes home from the wars, and the important thing is that there should be no gap between the war and the peace in which Snooks will be lost, bewildered, anxious, frustrated, angry.
503 It may perhaps be suggested that some difficulty will arise with regard to the staffing of such an organization, but there is no reason why that should be so. The numbers wanted at the centre would be very small, and, if the appointment of women, even to the highest posts, is not excluded—and it would be desirable to have at least one woman in the centre—there should be no difficulty in recruiting a really first-class general staff. The same considerations would apply to the regional and local personnel. Social welfare is a profession which has been taken up far more by women than by men, both in the specialized branches, such as almoning, care-committee work and so on, and in the more general aspects. That is not to say that preference should necessarily be given to women in making appointments, but it is worth considering, because, if there is no sex prejudice and the net is cast widely enough, trained and experienced personnel can be found. Another source of recruits would be amongst officers and non-commissioned officers discharged from the Armed Forces. Probably not many of them would be suitable, and fewer still would be trained, but among them there would assuredly be some who have had experience of welfare in dealing with those under their own command. There is another source which might be tapped amongst the Civil Defence workers, and particularly the wardens. Members of the Wardens Service, provided they have the necessary qualifications, have the advantage that in most cases they already know their potential patients and their difficulties, and they are accustomed to deal with them individually, instead of as so many items in the national man-power balance sheet.
I press upon His Majesty's Government the need for setting up such a Department or Statutory Commission at once. It will have to be ready for action whenever the "Cease fire" sounds. It is essential that it should be in full working order then, staffed and with its plans and preparations made. Such a Department should be of immediate service to the country during the war, for it could supervise, co-ordinate and, where necessary, supplement the welfare activities already being done by Government Departments. It would also establish the closest possible relations with the nume- 504 rous voluntary agencies—religious, benevolent, and philanthropic—which are also active in the field. Those of us who are familiar with the welfare work which is being done during the war for the Forces know how ready these agencies are to cooperate with the Government and what fine service is being rendered by them at the present time. There is a danger in the field of voluntary activities, however, no less than in that of Governmental activities, that there may be needless overlapping in one sphere and neglect in another through lack of guidance and coordination. A Department of Welfare would be able to be of enormous help here, advising these bodies about the needs which they seek to meet and putting them in touch with the people whom they are anxious to help.
There is another reason why this Department should be set up now, ready to operate as soon as hostilities cease. While the war lasts, people will put up patiently with inconvenience and hardship; they will blame all their discomforts and troubles on Hitler, and only set their teeth tighter with grim determination to finish the job. But, once Hitler has been defeated, they will have to find a fresh scapegoat, and they will blame the Government for everything that goes wrong. They will blame the Government for every delay. Tom Snooks, puzzled, disappointed, savage at his inability to get back to the happy home life he seeks, will most certainly hold the Government to account for it. His discontent may easily become dangerous. The importance of creating a Department now is that it will be there at the critical moment, and it will have a prime function to maintain the public morale, to interpret to the Government the needs and difficulties of the people, and to the people the policies and difficulties of the Government—the one is as important as the other.
I sum up my argument like this: Snooks has earned the right to peace. The basis of peace is material comfort, freedom from want, freedom from anxiety and a chance to live and work in the old familiar way. It is not enough to provide this or that social service. Again and again for a generation it has been shown that one of the greatest difficulties of the Social Services is that individual citizens do not know how to take advantage of them. The task of the welfare of which I am 505 speaking is to see that they do take advantage of them, that they have a real chance of taking advantage of them. The human approach is the key, and if there is any failure to solve these problems in the critical period after the war, the social and political consequences may indeed be grave. Social Services, however comprehensive and valuable, will not solve these problems alone: they must be reinforced and strengthened by giving body and substance to the new conception of human service. That is what I mean when I address your Lordships upon welfare. I beg to move.
§ LORD SNELLMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Nathan, has usefully brought to your Lordships' attention a question of great importance, and, as he insists, of some urgency. It is a question which Should never he absent from our thoughts. The post-armistice welfare of the men and women who, with a confiding loyalty and an unsurpassed courage, are defending our own lives and are the watchful guardians of a great and historic heritage, is and must be our constant concern. The preparations that we make for their wellbeing will be the test of the measure of our gratitude for their service. The noble Lord has not, however, to convert Parliament or the nation to a proper and decent appreciation of our responsibilities in this matter. All of us, without exception, in every Party throughout the land are resolved to ensure, as far as it is humanly possible to do so, that their sufferings in the war shall not be followed by hardships due to our unconcern or our neglect. Therefore nothing but good can come from a determination on the part of the nation to meet post-war needs by careful thought and by wise planning, stimulated by a sense of moral responsibility. We do not know with certainty what the need will be, and there will be a multitude of critics who will be wise after the event and assess blame very plentifully and readily, as Lord Nathan has suggested, but the test of statesmanship is to try to be wise before the event.
Allow me a further general word on this matter. Lord Nathan appeared to me in his speech to be overwhelmed and depressed by the thought of the magnitude of the task with which we shall be confronted. It would be very easy to let our anxieties for the future magnify to frightening proportions the difficulties that 506 we shall have to face, but I urge that we should face the task before us with hope as well as with zeal, for we gain strength through hope, and we are enfeebled by despair. Therefore, while agreeing with my noble friend Lord Nathan that we ought to be anxious about the future, I think the right and helpful course will be to meet it with courage and with such preparation as we can. My duty is to try to present the attitude of the Government to the general problem that Lord Nathan has raised and, where it is possible, to state their view in regard to some of the criticisms and suggestions that have been made. The Government have had the advantage of knowing Lord Nathan's considered view on the matters that he has discussed through memoranda drawn up by him with a clearness and precision, if he will allow me to say so, which have been most helpful. His speech to-day has been an up-to-date restatement of views that he has placed before His Majesty's Government.
Owing to the fact that the noble Lord's speech was interrupted by an interesting ceremony, your Lordships will forgive me if I try to summarize in one or two short phrases what I conceived the noble Lord's argument to be. It was that the importance of welfare work will be intensified in the resettlement period and will bring with it many new problems calling for personal and individual treatment. Lord Nathan insisted that while a good deal has been done to grapple with the special welfare problems of war-time, the work has not been co-ordinated, and that no effective machinery exists for co-ordination in the post-armistice period. He also insisted that the situation calls for a separate Ministry, or Department, of Welfare under either a Minister of Cabinet rank, or possibly a subordinate Minister attached to the Ministry of Labour and National Service in the same way as the Secretary for Mines was attached to the Board of Trade. He wanted, to use his own words, an organization to act as a link between his friend Snooks and the various Departments.
That is a crisp but accurate condensation of the noble Lord's argument. Let me deal with the claim for a separate Department at once. There can be no argument as to the important and difficult nature of the problems which will arise on the welfare side in the resettlement period, 507 and it is right that attention should be directed to them well before the end of the war. I am instructed to say that the Government's view is that the proposition that it is only by the creation of a separate Ministry that these matters can be effectively dealt with is a rather dubious proposition. Lord Nathan recognizes that welfare embraces a very wide field. In the sense in which he conceives welfare, there is hardly any aspect of the community's life on which it may not impinge, and there is hardly any activity in a Government Department administering any of the Social Services which does not have some welfare aspect. Clearly, therefore, it is not possible to frame and execute policy on housing, health, feeding, employment, and unemployment—to mention only a few examples—in isolation from considerations of welfare. The Government find it difficult to see how a separate Minister to co-ordinate and supervise could avoid being a fifth wheel in the coach, and possibly even a drag on its progress. Lord Nathan argued that individual citizens ought not to be required to traipse around the different offices of half a dozen Ministries to get their problems of housing, health, food, and labour dealt with. But the Government feel that a separate Welfare Office in a separate Department would not dispose of each or all of these matters, and the citizen would be in danger merely of finding one more Department added to the list.
Lord Nathan in the early part of his speech asked categorically, "Where are the plans to meet the expected crisis?" He recognized that a good deal has already been done by various Departments to develop the welfare side of their work during the war. In the Ministry of Labour and National Service this is a matter to which particular attention has been devoted. The Minister has more than once emphasized in the House of Commons the importance he attaches to the special machinery developed since he took office to deal with welfare problems of work-people, particularly those transferred from their homes. For instance, the Factories and Welfare Department of the Ministry has attached to it regional and local welfare officers all over the country whose main job it is to stimulate and co-ordinate the activities of the various Departments, agencies, and unofficial organizations con- 508 cerned. At the centre co-ordination is secured through the Factory and Welfare Board on which the main organizations are represented. This service and organization was developed because of the great problems presented by the large-scale transference and movement of labour during the war, and its functions are closely related to those of labour supply and to the efficient mobilization of manpower for war work. It was therefore natural that it should be developed as part of the war-time machinery of the Ministry of Labour and National Service, and it could not satisfactorily work in isolation from the employment service.
Your Lordships should note in this connexion that in the resettlement period the machinery existing will have to go into reverse. The staff that has been engaged in mobilizing labour for war service and war industries will have to turn to the task of putting it back and resettling it in civilian occupations. The welfare aspect of this task will be no less important than in war-time, and there can be little doubt that the welfare organization that has been built up during the last three years will have to be adapted to play its part in close association with the related services of the Ministry. Lord Nathan quite properly laid important stress upon the individual aspect of this matter. He said that the constant questions in the individual's mind are: "What is to happen to me when I get home? Shall I have any work to do? Will my home be existing? Shall I just have to take my chance in an unorganized struggle for life? "Lord Nathan would no doubt agree that the welfare problems of some groups of the community are quite distinct from those of others and can only be dealt with effectively when that fact is recognized. The best example of that is, perhaps, the seamen, whose special needs have been recognized through the institution within the Ministry of Labour and National Service of a Seamen's Welfare Board on which the principal organizations concerned are represented as well as Government Departments. As part of this development, committees have been set up in the main ports, and much has been done, especially in the way of providing hostels and other amenities, to promote the welfare of the seaman ashore. There can be little doubt that this institution has come to stay and that its value will be even greater in the post-war period.
509 Then there is the great question of the rehabilitation of the disabled person. Some special arrangements for this afford another example of what is being done. These cases will require the closest cooperation between a number of Departments, principally the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Labour, and the foundation for this has already been substantially laid during the war in dealing with special war-time problems. There is also attached to this problem the question of what we may call psychological rehabilitation, for a disabled spirit in a man may retard or even prevent the recovery of a disabled body. The question of homes and furniture has been mentioned, and that forms an important aspect of this great problem. It is urged that there will be a need for the provision of homes and furniture at reasonable prices to meet an unprecedented demand immediately after the war. This is quite clearly a question to which the Government will have to give the closest attention, but to regard it as a function appropriate to a separate Department of Welfare, whether attached to the Ministry of Labour or not, only illustrates the difficulties which arise from Lord Nathan's basic conception of a separate organization.
It is therefore suggested that the need is not for a separate Department with a roving commission for welfare in general, which by the very nature of things would not have executive responsibility over the whole field, but could only have functions of co-ordination and stimulation. The real need in the view of the Government is to ensure that the various Departments and authorities are fully alive to the welfare implications of the policies which they are responsible for framing and administering, that proper co-ordination is secured at all levels, and that their organization is suitably adapted and equipped for the special tasks of the resettlement period. Close co-operation with the voluntary bodies will certainly be essential. No one who has any close knowledge of the work that they are doing, and of their general fitness for performing most useful tasks in this great matter, will doubt that it is a most important aspect of the question. What has been built up in war-time to promote the welfare of the people must not be and will not be lost, but it would be a mistake in the view of the Government 510 to attempt to concentrate in one Department what must essentially be a constituent element in the policies and administration of a great many Departments and authorities.
I have now given briefly, but I hope clearly, the Government's attitude to the criticisms and the suggestions that have been made in this debate. They have reached no final conclusions, nor have they made any irrevocable decisions. They hold themselves ready to modify or to extend the scope of their present preparations, and they will not neglect to do so as needs become more clearly defined. Lord Nathan may therefore rest assured that the question to which he has drawn your Lordships' attention is not pigeon-holed only to be forgotten; it is, on the contrary, the constant preoccupation of all the appropriate administrative Departments. The debate to-day will itself extend and intensify the already wide interest which the question arouses, and all the suggestions that have been made will be carefully noted.
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his careful and sympathetic reply, and to learn from what he suggested, as indeed I surmised, that some attention has been given to two memoranda, to which he has referred, that I submitted during the past twelve months or so to His Majesty's Government on this subject. The noble Lord referred to the magnitude of the problem with which we are confronted, and said we should not be overwhelmed by it and that we should face it with hope and zeal. Of course we should face the problem with hope and zeal, but hope and zeal are not machinery, although they may be and should be motivating forces. It is some kind of machinery that my friend Snooks will be seeking. I am committed in the way of machinery in no way to a separate Ministry. It might be equally a Statutory Board or a Statutory Commission, but if the welfare of various Departments is being dealt with adequately, as my noble friend suggested, how does it come about that there have had to be set up special organizations to deal with welfare in the Forces, that in every part of the country citizens are invited to deal with the welfare of those not in the Forces, and that voluntary organizations have mobilized their resources with money and personnel to deal with the problem; to say nothing about the poor man's lawyers? If my noble friend's 511 diagnosis completely covered the position there would be no need for these manifold organizations.
The truth of the matter is that there is a real difference of understanding as to what is comprised in the term "welfare." The noble Lord has used it in the sense of Social Services. Of course, there is a vast amount of welfare work in the sense of Social Services, and I would be the first to pay tribute to it, but the welfare of which I am speaking is of an entirely different kind. The noble Lord seemed to think that the situation would be met were there welfare which is capable of being measured, weighed and appraised, welfare of what I might call a tangible character, the welfare work and Social Services with which we are familiar. But I am speaking of something that is worlds asunder from that. I am speaking of that which cannot be measured, which cannot be weighed, which can only be appraised in the minds of men. I am speaking of that which is a human service. I want not only to provide for Snooks Social Services but I want to provide the service of the friendly hand. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.
§ Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.