§ LORD MARLEY rose to call attention to the present position of the coal mining Industry; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, we have had an afternoon of interim discussions—a small interim Coal Bill, an interim Pensions Bill, an interim Town and Country Planning Bill and an interim discussion on forestry. I propose for a few minutes to enter upon an interim discussion on the coal question pending a full-dress debate at some later period when we have got nearer to finding a solution. This afternoon I want only to call attention to the fact that there has been a number of Reports on the coal-mining industry which are worth some consideration, and I want only to touch on the output of coal and not in any way on fuel economy. I notice that the noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, has put down a Motion on the scientific utilization of coal based on the Report of a Committee of which he is President. We have had the Greene Report dealing with wages and conditions —that is in operation now—we have had the Forster Report on juvenile employment (that was an interim Report issued in April this year), and we have had from the Select Committee on National Expenditure an extremely interesting Report on the coal-mining industry, issued in May. In addition, of course, we have had a White Paper on coal. The scheme of the Greene Report was, of course, only a temporary measure and is in operation.
§ The Report of the Committee on the recruitment of juveniles into the coalmining industry really puts a finger on the shortage of man-power which is the vital factor in limiting production. The Committees say that the causes of the drop in entrance into the industry are not due to the present war. The Committee state that the annual number of entrants in 1934 was 30,000, and that in 1942 the figure had dropped to only 14,000. They say that is far short of the figure needed to make up wastage from death and retirement. They say that the causes are not due to war conditions but to the past 45 bad record of unemployment in the industry, low wages and bad conditions, and the fact that there are many other more congenial occupations. I should say that there are few less congenial occupations than coal-mining. There is no case that I recall of a member of your Lordships' House being engaged actively in coal-mining. The recommendations of the Forster Committee are not, I think, without importance. The Committee recommend greater economic security, a guaranteed week, assurance of a progressive career, a national minimum wage and so on.
§ That Report was supplemented by the recently issued Report of the Select Committee on National Expenditure. The Committee say that the present serious position of the coal-mining industry is due to lack of foresight on the part of the present Government. They say that the miners joined the Forces in large numbers, that the maintenance staffs and the electrical staffs went to other industries, and that output, therefore, fell very sharply. The actions of the Government to deal with the problem were either inadequate or taken too late. The Select Committee on National Expenditure farther say that one of the causes of the failure of Government action to raise output was the dissatisfaction of the miners with the managements, which they distrusted. They point out that in the industry there is a large preponderance of older men because the young people have shown themselves reluctant to come in. They said that food was insufficient, that the miners were tired, that the canteens were inadequate, that travelling was difficult, and that there was a lack of modern machinery in the pits. The position to-day, the interim position, to which I wish to draw attention, is that the demand for coal is still increasing while the output is inadequate and is tending to diminish.
§
On page II of the Report of the Select Committee, these words are used:
… the nation must be prepared, in the forthcoming autumn and winter, to face a serious decline in coal production. They—
the Committee, that is—
are convinced that the factors upon which reliance is at present being placed offer no sure prospect that this decline in production, consequent upon the reduction by, normal wastage in the man-power available in the pits, is likely to be made good. They are
46
equally convinced that this reduction in output is not likely to be averted unless measures of a more far-reaching character than any hitherto proposed are found and put into operation without delay.
Now that is really the point upon which I want to ask the noble Earl who is going to reply for His Majesty's Government to give us a little interim information. The White Paper on coal stated that as soon as the Forster Report on the recruitment of juveniles was received, the Government would consider, as a matter of urgency, further steps. It would, therefore, be interesting to know, since the Report has been received, what they have done as a matter of urgency, and what measures of a more far-reaching character the Government have in mind at the present time.
§ There is the problem, which I venture to remind the House and the noble Earl we have had on top of us for four years, and nothing adequate has yet been done. Men have been brought back from the Forces, but they have been brought back too late. The only way, according to the Report of the Select Committee, to deal with this position is to get the young people, the juveniles, to come into the industry. When one looks at what the industry has been, one can see why they do not want to come into it. They have memories of bad conditions in the past, memories of unemployment and long hours, memories of bad lighting in the pits, memories of water-logging, memories of working poor seams, memories of lack of machinery, memories of unnecessary dangers and memories of bad housing. It is questionable whether even to-day the coalowners have got entirely away from the old feudal notions which the mining industry inherited as the oldest collective industry in this country.
§ Finally, I would ask the noble Earl who will reply to remember that interim steps taken now may have a tremendous effect after the war. The coal-mining industry is going to be of vital importance to us. It is going to aid British industry as a whole because it is going to save us from some of the need of importing oil fuel at a time when imports will be extremely difficult to pay for. It is going to help us in the possible development of the extraction of oil from coal, and, of course, coal is once again going to be one of our important exports. One could wish that we could go back to the days of 1912 and 47 1913 when we were exporting something like 70,000,000 tons of coal a year to pay for imports of raw materials and food. So I venture to hope that the noble Earl will be able to give us an assurance on this, that he will be able to tell us that the Government have in mind some form of new charter for the coal-mining industry, so that the juveniles can look forward to something better from the industry in the future than they have been able to look forward to in the past, and will thereby be encouraged to enter it. We must hope, first of all, that the Government have in mind the creation of the best possible conditions and the provision of the most modern equipment in the mines. Mining is one of the hardest and most dangerous of industries; miners should therefore be highly paid, and one would hope that a high minimum wage with regular increments may be provided. I hope also that the Government have in mind the provision of good pensions and full compensation for accidents, a complete medical service—that has already been started—and perhaps some ideas on the supply of the most modern coal-cutting machinery for below-ground work. Good lighting, modern ventilation and safety arrangements are vital if young people are to be attracted into the industry.
§ I hope that we shall not forget the conditions in the home life of the people. Mining villages are often separated from the rest of the community. The amenities are not as good as they ought to be, and no one lives in these villages who is not connected with mining. The country and the Government should therefore see to it that the housing is of a first-class character, that there are full amenities, and that there are proper schools, clubs, secondary and technical schools, gardens, canteens and so on. In other words, I suggest that cost must be no obstacle to the provision of the best conditions if young people are to be induced to come into the industry. I hope, therefore, that we shall have from the Government an interim report on what they are doing; interim in the matter of time, and interim also because the idea which we on these Benches hold is that in the end, if the national interest is to come first, there can be no satisfactory alternative to some form of organization of the coal-mining industry as a public utility and under 48 public ownership and control. I beg to move for Papers.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (THE EARL OF MUNSTER)My Lords, the noble Lord who initiated this debate has given a very brief outline of the speech which he intended to deliver had he been able to make it at a more reasonable hour; but your Lordships will, I hope, bear with me if I deal with a large number of the points which he has raised, not only because this industry is of such vital importance but also because the whole industrial strength of this country hangs upon the coal industry. As the war progresses and the size of the Armed Forces continues to expand, the demand for coal and its by-products has not lessened. The forging of weapons for the Fighting Services is dependent to a very large extent upon the winning of coal; and for this reason, if for no other, the production and the consumption of this mineral plays a very important role in the war effort.
Perhaps I may be permitted to take your Lordships back twenty-five years. In the long and chequered history of the coal industry from that date, we find that production has gradually but systematically dropped, and that the number of men employed within the industry has considerably lessened. Due to this, and to a variety of other reasons to which I do not propose to refer to-day, the Government have been called upon to play an ever-increasing part in the direction and handling of the industry. Your Lordships are only too well aware that much legislation, all of it of a highly complicated character, has been presented to Parliament. All of it has been designed and devised to restore strength and vigour to the industry, but in spite of all those efforts the steady deterioration to which I have referred has continued during the period separating the two wars.
To form a correct appreciation of the decline which has taken place, I should like to quote figures for three separate years. In 1922, there were 1,163,000 men employed in the coal industry, and the output amounted to 250,000,000 tons. In 1930, there were 943,000 men employed in the industry, and the output amounted to 244,000,000 tons. In 1938, there were 802,000 men employed in the industry, and the output amounted to 227,000,000 49 tons. During the same period the exports decreased from 87,000,000 tons in 1922 to 50,000,000 tons in 1938. Those figures in themselves show a situation which must cause disquiet, and which imposes an obligation upon us to give the most anxious consideration and thought to any proposals that may reverse this process, which has been going on for so long.
Since the outbreak of the present war, however, the whole position has changed, and we find ourselves to-day with a demand for coal which tends to be in excess of the supply, and with a shortage instead of a surplus of labour. This shortage is, as your Lordships know very well, accentuated by the steady loss of men from the industry during the period between the two wars. Our present object, therefore, has been to put forward and develop a policy directed to three main principles: firstly, to improve the general condition of the industry; secondly, to better the prospects for those employed within the industry; thirdly and lastly, to encourage, train and recruit young men to enter into the industry. I shall endeavour to show, during the course of my remarks, that every decision which His Majesty's Government have made has been directed to one or other of these principles. Indeed, I think that most of the points which were made by the noble Lord opposite in his speech lie within their spheres.
Before I come to that, however, I must make it quite clear that it should not be thought that the difficulties which we are experiencing to-day are to be found only in the British Isles. There is abundant evidence to prove that every one of the important coal-mining countries has met with the same problem to a greater or lesser degree, and that we are by no means lagging behind those other countries in the efforts which we are making to solve these inherently complicated questions. My right honourable friend the Minister of Fuel and Power is very much alive to the need for taking every possible step to increase the attractiveness of an industry upon which the happiness and prosperity of so many millions must ultimately depend.
In the White Paper which was published last year will be found the present organization of the industry. A regional organization has been set up in each coalmining region, under the direction and 50 control of my right honourable friend, and it is the intention that it should continue to function until such time as Parliament otherwise decrees. We do not propose to invite Parliament to agree to any legislation to alter the existing system of ownership and control. Nothing could be more disastrous to the unity of the nation at the present time than to introduce a Bill which, to say the least of it, would be of the most highly complicated character. All our work and all our actions must on the other hand be subordinated to the primary object of winning the war. The task of this regional organization is to do everything within its power to increase the output of coal without enlarging the demand for men. Some progress has been achieved in this direction by concentrating upon the most efficient pits and by the provision, as far as possible, of up-to-date machinery to increase the output of coal. I shall refer to that matter again in a few moments.
I should like to indicate to the House some of the steps which have been taken to improve general conditions in the industry and the prospects of those who are employed in the industry. The House will remember that the White Paper advised that it was desirable that a system should be developed by which questions of wages and conditions would be dealt with on a national basis and by a properly constituted national board. A body of investigation was set up under the chairmanship of the Master of the Rolls, Lord Greene. A Report was produced in a very short time, which dealt with the immediate wage issue by recommending a flat rate increase of pay per shift for adult workers and an increase of pay for juvenile workers as well. It also recommended for the first time a national minimum wage for underground and surface workers, but perhaps the most significant recommendation was the establishment of a scheme for the conciliation of disputes relating to wages and conditions of employment generally. This scheme, as the House knows, received the approbation of both sides of the industry, and in my view it provides an admirable model for initiation in other industries. When all is said and done, the coal industry has for many years been the most productive of disputes, strikes and lock-outs, which have resulted in damage of a permanent and incalculable nature 51 to the industry. Any scheme which will remove the distrust which has been experienced in the past and increase mutual understanding and toleration between both sides of the industry is a heartening sign of a new spirit of industrial goodwill.
The White Paper also recommended the setting up of a Mines Medical Consultative Survey, and under this scheme a mines medical officer has been appointed to each coal region, with the responsibility of co-ordinating and implementing the facilities for the medical treatment of miners. In 1927 there was one medical officer for 2,000 pits, but to-day we have ten medical officers, whose particular duties will be to see that all first aid equipment at each pit is kept up-to-date, to pay particular attention to any particular disease, to keep a general watch on medical certificates, to keep a general eye on the health of mine workers in their own regions and to assist in the rehabilitation scheme. A comprehensive scheme for the rehabilitation of miners injured in the course of their work has been built up and this will go some way to conserve man-power, and at the same time it is only right and humane to rehabilitate miners injured in the course of their work as soon as possible. A number of centres have been opened throughout the country, and it is intended to bring others into existence during the autumn months. Further a scheme has been brought into operation to deal with the disease of pneumoconiosis. Only the other day I introduced into your Lordships' House a Workmen's Compensation Bill which brought this disease within its scope, and provision was also made for a benefit scheme to cover old cases.
I new come to perhaps one of the most important matters of the whole industry, namely, juvenile recruitment. The mining of coal is a business which in recent years has certainly not attracted a sufficient number of boys and young men. The reasons for this may be either that there is a large variety of occupations open to youth to-day which offer better possibilities of advancement or that a sound and efficient coal industry was not forthcoming in former years. These may have been the reasons which made the problem of securing young men so difficult. We may not be able to do anything about the former, 52 but we can at least improve the latter, so as to bring the industry into line with the more prosperous industries of the country. I ask your Lordships not to forget that the troubles of the past have left an indelible mark upon the industry, and both time and patience will be required to eradicate the misfortunes which it has caused. I have just indicated some of the schemes of improvement, which are, or will shortly be, in operation and in which, of course, the juvenile entrants into the industry will also participate. But it was by no means certain that these schemes would, in themselves, resolve the difficulties, and accordingly some time ago, in April, 1942, His Majesty's Government set up a Committee under the Chairmanship of Sir John Forster to inquire into the opportunities of training and advancement and the general welfare of juvenile workers. The noble Lord referred to that in the course of his remarks.
The recommendations contained in the first Report made long-term proposals, and my right honourable friend is now exploring ways and means to implement the suggestions; but as an interim measure a provisional training scheme was formulated to take immediate effect until such times as the permanent schemes of training could be operated. Under the existing scheme all juveniles entering the industry are employed for the first six weeks on the surface, with a further month's training underground and with a minimum training of four months before they are allowed to work at the coal face. This new scheme for the training of the young entrants should, I believe, prove of inestimable benefit and encouragement to youth. Here is a plan to prepare them for the work at the coal face only after they have learnt to become skilled in their profession, to understand the dangers and to learn that the safety of their fellow-workmen is predominant. On the other side, we have better medical services, increased welfare facilities, and I believe we have certainly for some time to come abolished the fear of unemployment and the insecurity of employment. All these improvements which I have outlined should I think go some way to encourage the young men to enter the coal industry, though I am not saying that the task will be an easy one. Amendments and alterations may have to be made in the light of experience gained, but we are, I am sure, proceeding on the right lines.
53 The noble Lord referred to the Report of the Select Committee on National Expenditure which was published a short time ago. That Report deals in a very abridged form with a number of questions of moment to the industry, and many of the more important questions were actually raised with the Select Committee by the Ministry of Fuel and Power. My right honourable friend is therefore fully cognizant of the suggestions contained in the Report. The noble Lord made reference to absenteeism, economy of fuel, and the man-power question, all of which were raised by the Select Committee. Let me first deal with absenteeism. It is quite one of the most serious problems which affect the coal industry to-day, but it should not be thought that it is confined to the coal industry or that no action has been taken to meet it. Nothing, in fact, could be further from the truth. During the last year the Essential Work Order was amended, and the system outlined in the White Paper is now in force. In particular, regional investigation officers were appointed in each region to interview offenders who had been reported by their employers for the type of offences which are laid down in the Essential Work Order. The existing machinery has now been in operation for eight months, and generally has worked well, but my right honourable friend has no fear whatever of carrying out new experiments, which in fact has been done, to meet the changing or varying conditions. It is vitally important that the mine workers should appreciate the seriousness of this offence, which does far more to retard the war effort than any other in the industry. The need for coal and still more coal is ever with us, and that can only be won by really hard work and by avoiding absenteeism. I need not remind the House again of the great importance the Government attach to this question which was, as your Lordships will remember, brought to the minds of mine workers a short time ago by the letter which the Prime Minister addressed to every miner in the country.
I pass from that to the question of fuel economy. By a combination of good management, good luck, and good weather, we succeeded in overcoming the difficulties of last winter. Domestic consumers deserve the very highest praise for the economy which they exercised in the use of all forms of fuel. My right 54 honourable friend intends to continue his domestic publicity campaign as we approach the end of the summer months, and every effort will have to be made to save as much coal as possible during the coming winter. The industrial publicity campaign has, as your Lordships are aware, been continued without respite. I might mention here that all private consumers should be able to obtain sufficient fuel to meet essential requirements, and for those who are in a position to do so, stocks should be laid in now as priority of delivery during the winter months will be given, as in the past, to the small domestic consumer.
I come to the last matter to which I need draw your Lordships' attention, and which was raised in the Select Committee Report—namely, man-power. It is true that last year a portion of the wastage in coal mines was offset by a small number of ex-miners returning to the industry from the Forces, but this is an expedient which cannot be repeated, as every available man in the Services at present is required until victory is achieved. Young men called up for registration are, as your Lordships will remember, still given an option of working in the coal industry or joining the Armed Forces of the Crown. The chance of retaining output at its present level rests chiefly on the recruitment of juveniles and the avoiding of absenteeism. The House must now know that the hope of additional labour in the minefields is very slender, but on the other hand the decrease should not reach any startling figure.
Let me now turn to the future of the industry. Up to now I have dealt with some, though not all, of the matters we have brought into operation since the beginning of the war. There are many other problems to be solved if we are to lay the foundations of a more prosperous coal industry. Let it not be thought for a moment that by a stroke of the pen or by a debate in Parliament all the difficulties that loom ahead can be finally cleared away. We must plan to build the coal industry on the high pinnacle where it once stood. Progress that has been made in various directions by the improved medical services, by welfare facilities, by improved arrangements for the training of young entrants, and also by the Greene Award, will have its repercussions. On the other hand, progress is constantly 55 called for in the direction of technical improvements, and new machinery of all kinds is being developed to remove some of the deadly monotony of daily hand labour. This should transform many of the men into skilled machine operatives, and it is obvious that if any improvement in the machinery installed in a coal mine increases the output per man shift, it follows that the industry will become more attractive, physically and financially, to all concerned.
Furthermore, if we can co-ordinate the other fuel industries—coal processing, gas works, coke ovens, electricity plants, to all of which my right honourable friend attaches the highest importance—the prosperity of the coal industry should be far more secure than it was in the past. The noble Lord raised the question of petroleum production by methods of carbonization or hydrogenation. This is not a point which has been lost sight of by the Government, but I am not in a position to indicate to the House how far we have progressed in the attempt to provide our oil supplies from home sources, nor would it be desirable in our present perils to give such information which would be of material benefit and assistance to the enemy. On a long-term policy, your Lordships will realize this is not a matter on which any detailed statement can be made at the present juncture. A number of fundamental points of national policy are concerned, and also some very far-reaching economic considerations. All I can say at the moment is that His Majesty's Government are very alive to the importance of the whole of the oil-from-coal problem.
I have tried, in a very short space of time, to deal with many of the problems that beset us in the industry to-day. The future must depend on a multitudinous variety of factors, with all of which I have not been able to deal in the course of our discussion to-day. I have, however, no desire to hide from the House that a very difficult road lies ahead or that there is any immediate prospect of an increase in output. What I am urging on behalf of the Government is that every scheme that could usefully benefit the industry has, in fact, been adopted. If we can forget the past tragic story and remove the undercurrent of distrust, and together with all those whose livelihood is connected with 56 the coal industry, devote ourselves now to plan and to build a new industry, then we shall have made some substantial progress towards establishing a sounder economic business and a brighter and more hopeful future.
VISCOUNT MERSEYMy Lords, there is one point to which I do not think the noble Earl referred, or at any rate he did not say very much about it, and I would like to ask him a question about it. I should be glad if he can tell us what development and study is being made of the technical machinery in use in the mines, for example, the mechanical coal-cutting plant. Is there any body in the Ministry which studies the development of the processes that one hears a great deal about from the United States? One hears very little concerning them in this country. I know the noble Earl is so well-informed on the coal industry that I do not apologize for putting this question to him.
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERYes, there is a special section of the Ministry of Fuel and Power that is constantly dealing with that particular question—namely, the design and development of new machinery.
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERYes, it is being made use of.
§ LORD MARLEYMy Lords, I think the House is indebted to the noble Earl for a very comprehensive statement. The point he underlined was that the sort of trouble which we are having in our coal-mining industries is common to all countries. It would seem, therefore, that we might find a common explanation of some of the troubles of the past. As he suggested, there has been a danger of misunderstanding between employers and employed in the past, and other countries are experiencing the same trouble at the present moment, particularly the United States of America. With regard to the question of new machinery to which Lord Mersey has just called attention, the noble Earl knows that the Joint Select Committee, among its recommendations, urged that there should be accelerated production and delivery of machinery urgently required for further mechanization. I do not want to detain the House any longer and in view of the comprehensiveness of the answer I should 57 like permission to withdraw my Motion and to thank the noble Earl for his reply.
§ Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.