§ LORD WINSTER had the following Notice on the Paper: To ask His Majesty's Government whether the action of the Recorder of Cambridge in giving a prisoner who had pleaded guilty to breaking in and theft the alternative of joining the Merchant Navy or going to Borstal has been brought to their attention; and, if so, what action is being taken. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I feel that I should say a brief word in explanation of the question which I have upon the Paper. I should like to make it very clear indeed that I have no intention whatever of reflecting upon the action of the Recorder of Cambridge. I bring the matter forward for another reason which I will try to make clear. I am not sure that it would be constitutional for me to call into question the conduct of the Recorder, but in any case I should certainly not do so unless I had exact knowledge of the circumstances and exact knowledge of what actually was said, and that I have not got. I only know what has appeared in the Press and what has been written to me in letters.
§ The incident concerns a youth who pleaded guilty to breaking in and theft, and the matter was so handled—I am sure inadvertently—as to convey the impression to the public that this youth was given the alternative of deciding if he would join the Merchant Navy or be sent to Borstal for a long period. Dr. Johnson once said that no man with any capacity for going to gaol would ever think of going to sea, because in gaol the quarters were much more comfortable, the food much better, and the company more congenial, in addition to which he did not run the risk of being drowned. I hope we have not in these days reached the point of saying that no man with any capacity for going to sea would go to gaol. But we are not in the days of press gangs any longer, when ships were manned from gaols.
§ I am quite sure that this incident has, in some details, very probably been misrepresented by what has appeared about it and that in fact the youth was not presented with this flat alternative of joining the Merchant Navy or of going to Borstal. I have no doubt that one of the reasons that actuated what was said was the view that very frequently a 415 high-spirited boy can be cured by going to sea and turned into a very fine fellow indeed. I quite appreciate that argument, and I would be the last person to wish to deprive a boy of a second chance to make good and retrieve a slip. It has been said to me that many of our extremely successful Admirals were highspirited boys when they began, but I am bound to say I have not heard of one of our Admirals being guilty of breaking in and theft in his youth. If the mischief had taken that form I doubt very much whether any of them would have risen to their high rank.
§ The way this matter did appear to the public, perhaps mistakenly, that this alternative was given to this boy, has led to protests by the Merchant Navy and by organizations representing the various branches of the Merchant Navy. I myself have received letters from serious and responsible officers in the Merchant Navy protesting about this. It is very natural that the Merchant Navy should resent this sort of thing appearing in the Press. I do not know what would have happened if the youth in such circumstances had been given the alternative of going to Borstal or of joining the Army, the Navy, or the Air Force. I do not think these Services would have appreciated it, and the Merchant Navy does not appreciate it either.
§ There is another side to the matter. The organizations which represent the Merchant Navy—the Mercantile Marine Board, the National Union of Seamen, and the Federation of Merchant Navy Officers—have all been endeavouring for some time to gain certain improvements and advantages for the Merchant Navy, and they have been very successful. Great concessions and great improvements have been gained, and, in return, these organizations are doing all that they can to improve the status, prestige, and discipline of the Merchant Navy. They feel it is a duty they owe to do that in return for what has been granted to them. It does not assist them in their efforts in that direction if the idea is put about that the Merchant Navy is a perfectly suitable alternative to a long period in Borstal. I hope that the attention which has been drawn to this matter will ensure a different handling of such cases in future. There has been another case this year in which 416 a boy, found guilty of theft, and who was shown in evidence to be ignorant and backward mentally, was given a similar alternative. I hope that will not be the case in future. When it is desired to give a high-spirited boy an opportunity of retrieving his slip, if the idea is that he should join the Merchant Navy, I hope it will be handled in such a way as not to convey the suggestion that this is a suitable alternative to Borstal. The Merchant Navy, with great justification, is a very proud service indeed to-day, and it is entitled to the highest consideration in such matters as this.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, my noble friend Lord Winster has raised this matter in most reasonable terms, and he has discharged a useful service in saying what he has said and in asking for a short statement in reply. I am very glad indeed to take the opportunity of giving him an answer which I hope will give satisfaction, not only to him but to the Merchant Navy and the other Services, and to those who guide their organizations. We all agree whole-heartedly that the Merchant Navy is never to be regarded as a suitable receptacle for criminals. We are all absolutely agreed about that. I do not for a moment believe that any judicial authority would so regard the Merchant Navy or so treat it—not for one moment. That honourable service, no less than the three Services under the Crown, stands higher in public estimation than it ever did. We all realize that, without the high standards of duty and courage which merchant seamen hold and display, our country could not have survived. The organizations that represent the interests of the merchant seamen, of any grade, may be most fully assured that that is the way in which all sensible and grateful citizens, whatever their function or status, regard the Merchant Navy.
I was very glad to hear the noble Lord say that he did not rise for the purpose of making any reflection on the learned Recorder who is referred to in the question. That is as it should be. There are very good constitutional reasons why, in this House as in the other House, we should preserve very strict restraints in the matter of commenting on judicial service. I really do not think the facts of this particular case have come out as clearly as one could wish and I would, therefore, state what is my information. 417 In this instance the young man had already made application to join the Merchant Navy. According to him, and according to his counsel in Court—and I have no reason to doubt it—application had been refused under some misapprehension. I do not know what it was; and what this young man was most anxious to do, and what his counsel on his behalf was most anxious to secure, was that he should be able to make a further application to join the Merchant Navy. It was not a device adopted when he found himself face to face with a Judge in the Criminal Court.
The judge who had to decide what to do with him very naturally, and I think very properly, felt that he ought only to have that opportunity if he really used due diligence to pursue it. It is very easy to say these things on the day you are in front of your Judge and to forget all that you have intended to do once you are safely released. In those circumstances, the Judge postponed sentence and he said, in postponing sentence, that if this man used due diligence and made his application, that was the last he would hear about it, but otherwise he would have to be dealt with in whatever might be the appropriate way. I can only repeat the information given to me and I think my noble friend will see it is very easy for a false impression to have arisen. It really would be a very great pity if we failed to remember that not everybody who comes before a Criminal Court, not everybody even who pleads guilty to a criminal charge, is to be regarded as a thoroughpaced villain for whom there is no hope. His lapse may have been due to bad companions, it may have been due to the influence of some older person, and it is everything to enable the youth in our own country to feel that, if they will only take a finer view of their own opportunities, the world is still open to them to render valuable service. It is really entirely a question of the way you put it. In the sort of case I have in mind, I really do not think that anybody would reproach the tribunal for providing such an opportunity.
I noted with pleasure my noble friend's reference to Dr. Johnson. Nobody appreciates a good literary allusion more than I do. But it will be remembered that Dr Johnson, in any case, was not a great sea traveller. For years he re- 418 garded London as the supreme felicity of life and declared, if I remember rightly, that when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life. I recall, too, that when his friend Boswell, having (as Dr. Johnson said), been idle in Edinburgh and Glasgow and in London, too. announced that he was going to Utrecht in order to learn some more law, Dr. Johnson said he would certainly be as idle as ever. The Doctor, however, was good enough to accompany his friend—but only part of the way, only to the port of Harwich. There he abandoned him to the waves. Though of course Dr. Johnson did make a well-known visit to the Hebrides, there is nothing in the record to indicate that he enjoyed the sea transport which was a necessary part of his experience. Nowadays things are different.
I therefore want to sum up the whole matter by saying in deliberate and chosen terms that those who preside over our Courts of Law are well aware of the high standard and character expected of recruits for the Merchant Navy, and that there is no question of the Merchant Navy being regarded as a dumping ground for bad characters. And here I venture, through the noble Lord, to address the association and unions to which he has referred. Not everybody who is found guilty of an offence is a bad character, and there are cases in which it is right to give a young offender a chance to rise again. The noble Lord said Borstal meant a long term. I would point out that it is no good sending anyone to Borstal unless you send him there for a considerable time; but I protest against the notion that Borstal is imprisonment. Borstal is a place for discipline and training. In these special cases the Courts may well be reluctant to spoil the career of a young man whose heart is set on the sea. Therefore it is hoped that the members of that fine service and their organizations will, in suitable cases, not refuse to give these youngsters a chance and will not misinterpret the action taken by the Courts as a failure on the part of the Courts to recognize the high standard of that Service. That is the statement I wish to make, and I think it is completely attuned with the observations of my noble friend. This short interchange may possibly be considered of value both for the 419 Merchant Navy and for some high-spirited young people who ought to be given the opportunity of comradeship and experience and service in what is one of the greatest occupations in the world.
§ LORD WINSTERMy Lords, I beg to thank the noble and learned Viscount for his most courteous reply. I feel that the boy in question has already redeemed his slip by eliciting the very fine tribute to the Merchant Navy which I know will give the utmost satisfaction to the officers 420 and men of that Service. I desire to thank the noble Viscount.