Lords Sitting of 13 May 1942

Preamble
The House met, The EARL OF LUCAN on the Woolsack.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA (GOVERNORS' ALLOWANCES AND PRIVILEGES) (AMENDMENT) ORDER, 1042.

  MESSAGE FROM THE KING.
  THE EARL OF CLARENDON: My Lords, I have to convey to the House the following Message from the King, signed with his own hand:
  "I have received your Address praying that the Government of India Act, 1935 (Governors' Allowances and Privileges) (Amendment) Order, 1942, be made in the form of the draft laid before Parliament. I will comply with your request."

FUEL RATIONING PROPOSALS.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether they have any statement to make on the fuel rationing scheme.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (VISCOUNT CRANBORNE) (Lord Cecil): My Lords, in answer to the noble Marquess's question I would say that the Government have considered the question of fuel rationing in the light of the views expressed in the recent debates. They have decided to submit to Parliament after Whitsun their coal proposals as a whole, covering both production and consumption and the organization of the industry. No White Paper will, therefore, be issued before the Whitsun Recess.

REFUGEES AND PALESTINE.
Lord WEDGWOOD: My Lords, I desire to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies a question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether he intends to allow the fifteen refugees on the "Milhai" at Istanbul, and the thirteen refugees on the "Euxin,"
994
stranded at Cesné, all with relatives in Palestine, to land in that country.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: My Lords, the "Milhai" passengers, to the number of eighteen, have now reached Palestine and have been placed in a detention camp in accordance with the usual practice. As regards the "Euxin," which has been reported as stranded at Cesné, near Smyrna, the question of the disposal of the passengers is under consideration.
LORD WEDGWOOD: My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for that information, may I ask him whether there is any chance of the "Euxin" passengers being afforded passage to Palestine, and whether we could get information of that published as soon as possible?
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: My Lords, there can be no question of His Majesty's Government facilitating the passage of these passengers to Palestine as that would be contrary to their declared policy, but I have told the noble Lord that the whole matter of their disposal is under urgent consideration, and I can assure him that that is the case.

LAND DRAINAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a, and referred to the Examiners.

INLAND TRANSPORT.
LORD STRABOLGI LORD STRABOLGI rose to ask His Majesty's Government what steps are being taken or proposed to improve inland transport for war purposes; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, in the debates before the war on unemployment there was a phrase used about "genuinely seeking work," and I can assure your Lordships that this Motion, put down at the request of my noble friends, is genuinely seeking information. I am not addressing the Minister of War Transport in a critical mood at all, but I believe that your Lordships would welcome an opportunity being given to him to make a statement on the very important problems of inland transport which, I think I am right in saying, we have not had for some time, and there have been in the meantime very important developments.
Your Lordships are all aware that inland transport divides itself naturally into five or six sections, which are nevertheless interdependent—railways, road transport, canals, docks, coastal shipping and civil aviation. I do not propose to say anything about coastal shipping for obvious reasons, only to salute the brave, as I am sure the Minister of War Transport and all your Lordships would do, by paying a tribute to the magnificent courage and fine seamenship of the men who man our small coastal steamers. Civil aviation is completely under Government control and I believe entirely used for official purposes. Therefore it is unnecessary to dwell on that. With regard to the railways and transport generally, I find it very agreeable, if he will allow me, to pay a tribute to my noble friend the Minister of War Transport for his helpfulness in difficulties which private users encounter. My own experience, and I am sure it is the experience of others of your Lordships, is that his Ministry is most prompt in dealing with troubles and very sympathetic in trying to remove difficulties. I happen to be associated with a number of companies who are very large users of the railways. We send every year thousands of tons of steel products by railways and we get very good service. I am authorized to say that by my colleagues who handle this immense traffic. We feel that great credit is due to the Railway Executive Committee acting on behalf of my noble friend.
Certainly the railways have carried on well in spite of great difficulties due to enemy action, to the fact that they have had to turn over many workshops to the making of tanks and other weapons, and to the fact that they have had to send a great deal of rolling stock to Persia and other places abroad. In spite of that, the handling of goods and passenger traffic has been creditable. At the same time we feel that there is a loss of efficiency due to the continued existence of four separate railway systems. I am not using the national emergency as a wind to blow-along a craft because it formed part of our former policy and is, indeed, part of our present policy. I am looking at this matter only from the point of view of efficiency of transport during the war. There is a good deal of evidence of difficulties in working the pool of goods vehicles owing to the existence of the four
996
companies. We believe there is a strong case for the complete unification of the railways. I am indebted for certain figures to my honourable friend in another place, Mr. George Ridley, who has spent his life in the railway service and has made a great study of the question. He points out that the State is now paying rent for the use of the railways and, through the Railway Executive Committee, is managing them without any regard to profit making. We are paying £43,000,000 a year, including £5,000,000 paid to the London Passenger Transport Board. Why should we stop there? Why should we pay this rent for the use of the railway system and run it without seeking to make a profit, and not make the second bile at the cherry?
Think of the saving to the Exchequer if we could buy the railways at the present Stock Exchange valuation. No one of your Lordships could complain that that would be robbery. The present Stock Exchange valuation amounts to about £750,000,000. Three per cent. interest on that sum would amount to £22,500,000. If we bought out the railways at the Stock Exchange valuation and paid three per cent. interest we should have to find £22,500,000 instead of the £38,000,000 we are now paying for rent, leaving out the payment to the London Passenger Transport Board. That would leave a substantial margin for renovation of stock, electrification, and other things. I ask my noble friend the Minister of War Transport, whether he can stand up in your Lordships' House, lay his hand on his heart and assure your Lordships that, it the whole system were unified under national control, there would not be greater efficiency. He shakes his head; but that was the finding of the Cabinet in 1918. The policy of doing that in 1918 was announced by a prominent member of the Cabinet at that time, the present Prime Minister, during his election campaign at Dundee, and it went all over the world that a great step in national reorganization was to be taken. Other counsels prevailed and it was not done, but the case for it was made then, and I shall be astonished if my noble friend finds any difference to-day. So much for the railways. That is the only controversial matter—if it is controversial, it ought not to be—which I intend to introduce.
With regard to road transport, I venture to make several suggestions. There is still room for improvement in amenities for road transport men. The men who drive heavy vehicles on long journeys need more and better canteens and rest places. The reason, of course, for the lack of means of getting refreshment, especially late at night, is that private restaurants and canteens which used to cater for these men have had to close down owing to lack of staff and difficulties of supply, and nothing has taken their place. The Ministry has done something, but there is still room for improvement. I suggest that it is important that these men on long-distance hauls should have suitable canteens. It is just as important in their case as it is in that of the dockers or miners.
The next point I want to make is this. The policy now—and I do not quarrel with it—is to persuade manufacturers and others to send their heavy goods and other goods as far as possible by rail instead of by road. That is quite understandable, but I suggest that sufficient inducement should be held out to the owners of private goods vehicles to maintain then lorries and drivers ready to be used again to the full extent, in case of damage to railways or any other cause which would make it necessary to use them. In other words, you must allow these owners of private goods vehicles to use their vehicles to a sufficient extent to make it worth their while to keep them in being. The third suggestion I would make is this. Now that the use of private motor cars is being discouraged or prevented, it is, or should be, a corollary—this is a point made very strongly by my noble friend Lord Nathan—that there-should be an improvement in public passenger services such as omnibus services and local railway services in the rural and semi-rural areas. If you are going to drive all motor cars off the road, or restrict their use to a very great extent, you must increase the travelling facilities by omnibus and char-à-bane and local railway. I am sure my noble friend is alive to that need.
Now I come to the third great means of transport, the canals, and here I propose only to ask my noble friend certain questions. What steps have been taken to carry out the recommendations of Mr. Frank Pick following his investigations?
998
Are we using our canals to the limit of their capacity? Probably the answer is that we are not, and I can anticipate the reasons for that answer. There is great need of dredging, I believe, and there is also a shortage of boatmen. I do not know what is being done to increase the number of boatmen. It is almost a hereditary occupation and it takes a long time to train boatmen, who are very skilled people. That includes boatwomen as well. But your Lordships will agree that the greater the use we can make of the canals, which are practically invulnerable to attack from the air, the better it will be for the country.
Similarly, with regard to the docks I propose, if I may, only to ask my noble friend the Minister several questions. I understand that there have been great improvements all round. The information which I have from my old constituency of Hull bears out that. How is the new scheme for the decasualization of dock labour working out? Is the scheme for transferring dock labour to the places where it is most needed succeeding? At how many ports are Dock Labour Corporations functioning and with what success? If we could have answers to these questions—and I feel certain that there would be nothing against the public interest in giving the information—I am sure that the whole country would be interested, and certainly your Lordships would. The only other point that I propose to make with regard to the docks is this. I know the dockers of this country fairly well, and I can assure my noble friend the Minister that he has splendid human material to work on. Of course, the dockers need careful handling; you have got to understand them. But they arc magnificent men if properly looked after, and their courage in times of great difficulty, danger and trouble on Mersey-side and Thames-side and elsewhere, has been beyond all praise, as I am sure your Lordships will all agree. I beg to move.
VISCOUNT MAUGHAM: My Lords, I desire to take the earliest possible opportunity to call attention to a matter which, I think, is just, and only just, within the terms of the present Motion. But it may be convenient to the Minister of the Crown who is dealing with this matter that I should postpone the particular subject in which I wish to interest the House until a later date. The matter was ised by a

999
very interesting letter that appeared m The Times about a week ago by Professor Arthur Goodheart. He happens to be an American subject with a professorship at Oxford. He pointed out, very shortly, that in the United States a number of steps have recently been taken to reduce the maximum speeds of all vehicles on the roads with the object, and with the result, of greatly diminishing the expenditure on petrol, oil, tyres and upkeep of the machines. I am prepared with some statistics that come from America. I am also prepared with some evidence on the same subject that comes from Canada.
All I proposed to do, if it were convenient, was to call the attention of His Majesty's Government to this matter in the hope that they would follow the example set in America, and also, incidentally, to call the attention of users of motor cars, trolleys and other vehicles in this country to the extravagance which is involved in driving vehicles at rates exceeding thirty-five miles per hour. The figures are really very surprising, and they will come as a great surprise to a great number of motor users who are not aware of the facts. Having made that slight introduction of my subject, and admitting, as I do, straight away, that it comes only just within the terms of the Motion now before your Lordships, I am quite willing, if the Minister should so desire, to put down a separate Motion on this subject. I hope to be able to bring it on next week. If there is no objection to my making my statement on the matter now I shall be very happy to do it.
THE MINISTER OF WAR TRANSPORT (LORD LEATHERS): My Lords, I am not really prepared for that aspect of this question and I think probably it would be better if it were deferred until a little later. But I may say just a few words on it now. This is a matter which has not been lost sight of by any means. A great deal has already been done to educate road users in the necessity of easing their speed, with a view to economy in rubber in particular, and also to bring before them the consideration that when you begin to use your tyres at a somewhat lesser pressure then your speed has to be taken into account for safety as well as for economy. I think it would be better for the House if I deferred saying anything further on this subject
1000
until we can have a fuller examination of the points which Lord Maugham has in mind, and then no doubt I shall be in a position to give a much more satisfactory answer.
VISCOUNT MAUGHAM: My Lords, that being so I do not trouble your Lordships at present with the speech which I was about to make.
House adjourned during pleasure, and resumed by the LORD CHANCELLOR.
LORD SEMPILL: My Lords, my noble friend Lord Strabolgi has raised a question of paramount importance, and I hope your Lordships will allow me to make a few observations in regard to road transport, the full and uninterrupted functioning of which is so vital to the war effort and the daily life of the community. On April 28, as your Lordships will remember, my noble friend the Duke of Montrose initiated a debate on producer-gas units for road vehicles. My noble friend Lord Leathers replied for His Majesty's Government, and the subsequent Division of your Lordships' House showed that the measures he announced were not considered sufficient to meet the emergency that could have been foreseen, and is due to the growing shortage of petrol and Diesel oil. It is obvious, if full effect is to be given to the suggestions outlined by my noble friend Lord Strabolgi, that a programme ox ten thousand producer-gas units will have to be multiplied many times—I suggest five times at least.
The plan announced by the Minister of War Transport was for the manufacture of ten thousand producer-gas units not of what is known as the Government emergency producer but as the Government improved emergency producer. My noble friend Lord Leathers was particularly careful to draw a distinction between the original Government emergency producer and the Government improved emergency producer. No details, however, were given as to what these improvements were, and the Minister said that they must be withheld for "security reasons." But I would like to urge that plans of this producer could, without danger to the realm, be made available as well as the essential performance figures showing the results of the trials that have, it is assumed, been undertaken as between the Government emergency producer, the

1001
Government improved emergency producer, the B.C.U.R.A. producer, in the making of which the I.C.I. and Messrs. Vauxhall Motors have played a part, and any commercial producers that may have been fabricated by members of the Mobile Producer Gas Association. The figures required should give the weight of solid fuel consumed per mile, the percentage of petrol consumed for starting purposes and also for obtaining increased power in an emergency in relation to the total amount which world be consumed were the vehicle operating entirely on petrol, and also the amount of wear of cylinder bores per thousand miles of running. Such data, I suggest, would give your Lordships an opportunity of appreciating the merits that the Minister claims for the Government improved emergency producer, which you will perhaps allow me to call the Mark II producer, and which, in the absence of any information given to your Lordships to the contrary, must be assumed to function with a greater all-round efficiency than any other gas-producer unit.
In order that any doubts which exist—and there are many—due to the poor performance of the Government emergency producer, which I will call the Mark I producer, may be set at rest, a road trial of various units should, at the request of the Minister, be organized by the Royal Automobile Club, so as to show, in a manner which the using public will understand, which is the best unit and, to use a common expression, to "put over" the producer-gas-fired vehicle in a really effective manner. I am not myself convinced that the Mark II Government emergency producer will prove to be the best available in those circumstances, and your Lordships, I am sure, will agree that the producer schemed out technically by Imperial Chemical Industries in collaboration with the B.C.U.R.A., and designed for production by Vauxhall Motors, must receive the fullest consideration in case it should prove under trial to be the best. That would not be unlikely, in view of the immense capacity of the three organizations responsible for what is known as the B.C.U.R.A. producer.
My noble friend Lord Leathers, in the debate in your Lordships' House on April 28, said that the B.C.U.R.A. producer required for its operation only high-temperature
1002
activated coke, but I am sure that he will not mind my pointing out that activated anthracite will suit equally well, and that low-temperature coke—admittedly in short supply—can be used. The programme envisaging the manufacture of 50,000 B.C.U.R.A. producers, of which the Minister is aware, calls for the production of 700,000 tons of high-temperature coke. Such a supply can be obtained by coking ten per cent. of the type of coal now being mined and which is suitable for this purpose. This coal, as your Lordships are aware, comes from pits dispersed over the Kingdom. Of course, the gas and tar products recovered are not required for the producer programme, and would be used in other directions.
The high-temperature coke would have to be crushed, graded, and activated by the addition of an alkali, as was pointed out the other day by my noble friend Lord Leathers. Plants for this operation could with advantage, perhaps, be located at various points, and your Lordships will be interested to know that the plant required for crushing and grading the material absorbs 80 per cent. of the total cost of the whole plant; in other words, 20 per cent. is expended in the activating part of the plant. Whatever type of fuel is required, it will be necessary to have crushing and grading plant. The total amount of ferrous material required for the production of 50,000 B.C.U.R.A. units and for all the crushing, grading and activating machinery is some 15,000 tons, and of this total only 5 per cent. is absorbed by the activating plants.
Speaking as a production engineer, I should like to impress on my noble friend Lord Leathers the vital importance of equipment for all purposes being designed for production. Of the different producer-gas units that there are, I think it may be said without fear of contradiction that the B.C.U.R.A. is the only type of which this can be said; and that a firm of great experience, Messrs. Vauxhall Motors, have designed it and the required jigs, tools and fixtures for mass production on the largest scale. Within the year of the placing of an order for these units, at least 1,000 units per week would be in production. I should like to urge my noble friend Lord Leathers to give very earnest consideration to these points, since he emphasized so clearly in his remarks to your Lordships the other clay that we should have done much harm if we had rushed

1003
into operating any ill-conceived or hastily-devised scheme. This being the case, I am sure that he will not mind my suggesting that the mass production of the B.C.U.R.A. producer fulfils those ideals more perfectly than any producer-gas unit for road vehicles so far known.
This development of the producer-gas unit is but a step in the changes which circumstances will force on our road transport system. It is an emergency measure, and we must strive to design round this particular difficulty by considering at this time other means, as, for example, the development of what might be termed the twentieth-century steam type of car, driven, perhaps, by pulverized fuel. I thank your Lordships for listening to me, and hope that you will support me in pressing the noble Lord, the Minister of War Transport, to give the technical details of performance asked for, and to organize a road trial of a public character, from the results of which the operators of road vehicles may be convinced that they have got the most efficient apparatus that British genius is able to design.
LORD LEATHERS: My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord Strabolgi for having given me this opportunity for discussing the subject of inland transport, for the carriage of goods and passengers by rail, by road and by canal is an absolutely essential factor in the whole war programme. Our factories cannot produce unless transport brings them their raw material; and indeed the products of our factories are of no value until they have been delivered to the user. Transport comes in at every stage, and no planning of war production is possible without the co-ordinated planning of war transport.
Noble Lords will realize how vastly increased is the burden thrown upon our transport system by the war. It is not only the greatly increased volume of goods to be moved, it is also the heavier difficulties of working and the carriage of goods and personnel to new destinations along routes not equipped in peace-time for heavy traffic. All this has called for great foresight, for powers of prompt improvisation in emergency, but above all for advance planning. Some of the steps being taken to improve inland transport to meet these heavy calls were initiated some time back, and although the effects
1004
may still be showing themselves in new ways, I do not propose to dwell upon them. Rather I want to deal with more recent measures introduced since the amalgamation of the former Ministry of Transport with the former Ministry of Shipping some twelve months ago.
I want first to say a word on the transport within this country of goods imported from abroad. To some extent the efficiency of our distribution of imported goods depends upon the way in which they have been stowed in the ships' holds in the overseas ports. We have to see that the stowage is done not only to secure the best balanced cargo for the utmost use of the shipping space, but also to enable the quickest discharge to take place in this country. A lot, therefore, depends upon the efficiency of stowage at the ports abroad, and this we watch most assiduously. We must also avoid a ship being brought to a port where delay in discharging or in inland distribution may occur or where unnecessarily long hauls may be involved. This work of allocating ships to the most suitable ports is the task of the Diversion Room in my Department. They are in constant touch with ships in transit from overseas, and they issue the necessary orders where a change in the destination port is required. They know the position in every port, the availability of berths, cranes and labour. They know the reception capacity of quays, warehouses, granaries, tankage, the sorting accommodation, the relative urgency of cargoes, the railway, road or canal capacity, and all other factors that have to be taken into account in deciding upon the right port of discharge.
The docks in this country are a nodal point in our transport system, but I fear I shall not have time to-day to deal with them as fully as I should wish. I can only touch on the more salient developments of the last year or so. The most fundamental development has been the schemes for decasualizing dock labour. Separate schemes were introduced a year ago on the Mersey and the Clyde. Somewhat similar schemes have since been established by the National Dock Labour Corporation at a number of other ports within the last five months. The total number of ports now covered by the Corporation is twenty-two, and I think we can say that within the next fortnight a further two ports will be added. As a

1005
result of the schemes it can definitely be said that the unauthorized stoppages of work, which previously were frequent, are now rare, and that the artificial shortages of labour created by men refusing particular jobs have ceased. The habits and traditions of casual work on docks cannot be altered in a short time, and minor difficulties are constantly cropping up which require solution. No insuperable difficulties have been found, and it is unlikely that after the war casual labour will be resumed. The noble Lord has asked in particular how the transfer scheme for dock labour is working. I am very glad to be able to say that the system of transferring dock workers from one port to another is now working very smoothly, and is proving useful. In certain circumstances not difficult to imagine the scheme may make a vital difference to our supplies.
The main work of inland transport falls under the four heads of railways, roads, canals and coastwise shipping. I am leaving out civil aviation because that has never been brought within the functions of inland transport. It is a subject rather governed by the Air Ministry, and we have yet to determine what will happen after the war. I have already mentioned the tremendous traffic the railways are undertaking. To meet this war-time traffic we have done a great deal of constructional work in increasing line capacity, in the provision and strengthening of alternative routes and by-passing congested points. We have installed new signalling equipment and marshalling yards and exchange sidings. I will not detain your Lordships with details of these works—nor, indeed, would it be wise to publish them—but it will give some measure of their scope if I say that since the outbreak of war some 350 works of this kind have been completed and 280 are now in hand. We are pushing ahead as fast as possible with these latter works, and most of them will be finished and in use by the autumn. We shall need every possible improvement to help us in the coming winter, and we are neglecting no opportunity to prepare for that testing time.
I have also to watch the construction and maintenance of locomotives and rolling stock. Many engines and wagons have been sent overseas, and while these have been invaluable in other theatres of war, their absence has, of course, had its repercussions at home. However, we
1006
have taken measures to speed up repairs, to retain in service engines which would ordinarily have been scrapped, and to push up the construction programme in the railway workshops. Some 78,000 workers are now employed in the railway shops. This number shows a considerable increase on 1939—an increase achieved mainly by dilution and the employment of some 11,000 women.
Beside these plans of new works and construction, our efforts on the operational side may appear unspectacular. So far as freight traffic is concerned, we see that movements are planned in advance so as to avoid all unnecessary haulage and to facilitate loading in bulk. When plans are being made full attention is paid to the various alternative means of transport available. Government Departments have been asked to place their contracts so as to avoid long or difficult hauls, and they are also being pressed to adopt zone distribution of their commodities in order to obtain yet further economy. On passenger transport by rail my Department is guided by two main principles—namely, first, to maintain all essential facilities for the movement of the Forces and those whose journeys are directly concerned in war production; and, secondly, to curtail other services in order to conserve man-power and engines and to release train paths. I may mention that in addition to the thousands of special trains that have been run for the transport of the Services, about a thousand new trains daily have been introduced on the railways since the outbreak of war for the transport of workers.
As to the restrictive measures taken to allocate our resources to the most essential needs, we are closing branch lines and stations where traffic can be catered for by alternative means of transport, we are reducing the frequency of services as well as withdrawing restaurant, buffet, and sleeping cars in order to increase the carrying capacity of the remaining trains. But I wish to strike a note of warning. The public and Government Departments have assisted splendidly in cutting out unessential journeys, and I am most grateful for their help, but we have now-reached the stage that more drastic action will be needed when the onset of winter brings with it the customary increases in operating difficulties. Train services, particularly long-distance services, will have to be reviewed again and

1007
carefully pruned. It is hoped that propaganda will induce the ordinary-passenger to refrain from unnecessary journeys, and it will probably be necessary to secure some reduction of Service travel. The introduction of some rationing system for railway travel has been very exhaustively discussed, but any such innovation would involve a complicated organization expensive in man-power; it is improbable that the saving in passenger journeys would justify the elaborate machinery which would be necessary.
On the more general issue of the organization of the railways, my noble friend has made a strong plea for the unification of the four railway systems. If he is suggesting that everything should be done to eliminate overlap of authority or divided control; if he wishes to secure singleness of direction and working, then I am entirely with him. I am convinced that railway control, as now administered, secures the proper centralized operation of the rail transport system of the country as a whole. No other form of administration would achieve a greater degree of unity. Railways of the four main line companies and of the London Passenger Transport Board are operated as a single unit under the central direction of the Railway Executive Committee. This Committee, composed of the General Managers of the four main line railways and the Chairman of the London Passenger Transport Board, is presided over by an independent Chairman, who also holds the office of Controller of Railways in my Department. The Committee functions through a number of sub-committees, each consisting of officers of the railway companies responsible for a particular aspect of railway work. These sub-committees, therefore, represent the pooled skill of all the British railway companies. The experience of the British railways is thus combined to consider all the day-to-day problems of railway operation.
Wherever lines of demarcation between the separate railway companies might have impeded the fullest response to the war effort they have been eliminated. Let me give you one or two examples. The day-to-day distribution of all the wagons, ropes and sheets used on the British railways has been unified under a single freight rolling stock control. This measure of rationalization has
1008
greatly increased the carrying capacity of our limited stock of wagons. Close attention has been given to securing the best use of railway locomotives, regardless of the company to which they belong. It has, for instance, been found convenient for one railway to take over the local train working of another, thereby releasing locomotives for use elsewhere. Thus the work of the London, Midland and Scottish freight trains on a certain branch has been taken over by the Great Western Railway, thereby releasing two high-powered locomotives and their crews for work elsewhere, and making it possible for a London, Midland and Scottish locomotive shed to be closed. Again, the Great Western Railway shunting work at two junctions has been taken over by the London, Midland and Scottish resulting in savings in Great Western Railway locomotives and in men. Much has also been done to use locomotives of one railway in between turns of duty to work the services of another railway. Thus, at Manchester a London and North-Eastern Railway locomotive is used to work a London, Midland and Scottish passenger train in between turns of duty. The same thing has happened at Dundee between the London, Midand and Scottish and the London and North-Eastern Railway. I could multiply such examples almost endlessly, but I hope I have said enough to convince your Lordships that our railway systems are working as a single unit, and are all pulling together as a team.
It is suggested that we should now proceed to secure unification of ownership. I am certain that to attempt a change of such a nature at this time would cause confusion and delay; the mere mechanics of the change would preoccupy the time and energies of men we need on immediate tasks. Far from furthering the war effort, it would unquestionably hamper it. My noble friend referred to the amount under the new railway agreement, £43,000,000, and proceeded to say that the railways worked at a low profit. I would only say that the Government have every reason to be satisfied with the proceeds of the railways' results, having regard to the amount they have undertaken to pay the railway companies for rental.
LORD STRABOLGI: I did not mean to say they were not making a profit, but that they were being worked to-day without

1009
any regard to whether they made a profit or not.
LORD LEATHERS: Indeed, that is quite right. But even without the funds which would ordinarily come as a result of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's stabilization policy, the amount of £43,000,000 is more than covered by the results produced by the railways. Transport by road presents us, broadly, with the same problems. There is a heavy traffic to be carried, and there are wartime difficulties of man-power and maintenance. In addition we have to bear in mind the dependence of road transport on imported fuel and rubber. We have to keep a balance between the need for the maximum carrying capacity and the necessity of achieving stringent economies in fuel and tyres. It has been necessary to cut down every non-essential road service and to concentrate on war essentials to an ever-increasing extent.
The recent decision to convert ten thousand vehicles to run on producer gas shows that we are alive to the necessity of saving imported fuel. I did not come prepared to-day to discuss at any great length this matter of producer gas. I thought that the recent debate had given enough to your Lordships for the moment. But I thank my noble friend Lord Semphill for having made these references because all of us are better for further education on this subject. I do not claim that we know all about it, but I would like to say that these tests, which, as I mentioned when I last addressed your Lordships, have been made by the technical committee, were tests made over a sustained period. Tests of a kind such as may be suggested now, of some two thousand miles conducted by the R.A.C., will really serve no purpose. The real value is to see how the different producers stand up after long-sustained trials.
I was rather hurried in reaching a decision in order to respond to the wish of the House. I should have preferred these tests to be carried on for another three months, making six months in all; but since there was a desire and a need that we should not delay in this matter, I pressed for an interim report. These tests, I ought to mention here, were carried out not only in respect, of course, of the Government's improved producer
1010
but of the other plant—the B.C.U.R.A.—as well, and those conducting these tests were all practical, knowledgeable, technical people. I assured your Lordships on the last occasion that the Government's decision had been taken as a result of the recommendation in that interim report, and I feel it can be said that we have not acted without proper advice or without knowing what the B.C.U.R.A. can do. With all these other things that should be taken into account as to the availability of suitable fuel, I feel that we have made the right decision. I should be very sorry, as I said previously, if any step of this kind, which is regarded by some people as only a small step in this development, is looked upon as a move that seriously impedes the development of the B.C.U.R.A. apparatus. I do hope that those concerned will persevere, and perhaps under future long-sustained tests, as are necessary, the B.C.U.R.A. will stand out as an apparatus which then can come into its own.
We must remember, too, that road transport is an invaluable second line should the railways be "blitzed." The immense growth of war industries, the dispersal of production often to somewhat inaccessible places, and the building of factories and billeting of personnel, Service and civilian, in new places, have all made unprecedented demands on the road transport industry. What then have we done to use our resources most wisely to meet the needs? I will deal first with the passenger side. Subject to general instructions from headquarters, the detailed control of road passenger transport lies with the Regional Transport Commissioners. This enables close contact to be maintained with local difficulties and needs. In this we have the assistance of the welfare officers of the Ministry of Labour and of the transportation officers that have been appointed at many of the larger factories. The Transport Commissioners have wide powers to control the times and routes of services; in addition they control issues of motor fuel. I have power under the Defence Regulations to compel an operator to carry on his undertaking so as to provide any service required to maintain war production, but so far this power has not had to be used, since my Commissioners have been able to arrange for omnibus services wherever they have reasonably been required.

1011
Already we have reduced all pleasure services to the minimum needed for the reasonable relaxation of workers. Already we have transferred passengers from road to rail wherever practicable, and already we have in being an emergency structure for mutual aid in case of serious dislocation. Priority of travel at peak periods is given to workers where this is possible, and a widespread propaganda campaign has been directed to induce the public to refrain from using omnibuses at peak hours. In order to spread the peak hour load and to reduce discomfort and congestion, we encouraged the staggering of hours of work in factories and offices, local arrangements have been made for the early closing of shops, and times of entertainments have been adjusted so as to avoid large numbers of people travelling at peak hours. I feel, too, that we are able to tell your Lordships that the 'bus services of the country will be able to take up that amount of traffic additionally which may fall to them in consequence of the basic ration policy and fewer private cars being on the roads.
As for the carriage of goods by road, we have had since the beginning of the war an emergency war transport organization under which goods vehicles are controlled and their services enlisted for essential work. As part of my plan to remove all unnecessary running, there is on the way at present a campaign for the rationalization of retail deliveries. In this we have the ready co-operation of the other Departments interested. Traders have been stimulated to formulate their own proposals so as to meet local conditions, and schemes, therefore, vary from place to place. All the schemes, however, are showing economies in manpower, fuel and vehicles. The rationalization of wholesale distribution is also now in hand. Much has been done in some industries, but our proposals cut deep into existing practices and there is still some way to go, but I am determined that quick progress shall be made.
I should like again to acknowledge the assistance of my noble friend Lord Woolton. As he has announced, he is introducing shortly a scheme dividing the country into nine sectors, and prohibiting the movement of foodstuffs from one sector to another sector.
We now have in operation the new Government road haulage scheme
1012
which is designed to put a fleet of general haulage vehicles under direct Government control, in addition to the fleet of chartered vehicles operating the meat pool. Working in co-operation with the Hauliers' National Traffic Pool—an organization set up by the industry at my request and paid for out of public funds—the organization of my road haulage branch arranges for the movement of a large volume of Government traffic. The separate port pools, which did such valuable work in port clearance, have now been absorbed in the combined organization. Another side to the scheme is that of the so-called "defence lines"; that is vehicles that operators have undertaken to place at my disposal in an emergency. This is purely a precautionary measure to provide an ordered method of dealing with emergencies. This road haulage scheme has, in effect, provided (1), a fleet of vehicles which can in emergency be switched immediately wherever needed, and (2), a clearing house organization which will lead to better use of vehicles. Incidentally the scheme arranges for the "back loading" of Service vehicles which might otherwise have to travel light. The scheme is still in an experimental stage, but it is moving some 70,000 tons of general traffic in addition to being responsible for all road movements of meat and live stock.
I have dealt now with the operational side of road transport, but there is another more important side of the question. My Department have to see that the industry gets the vehicles it needs, but at the same time we must not press for the manufacture of one more vehicle than is absolutely necessary. Labour, materials and productive capacity are all required for other essential work, and I therefore have to steer carefully between allowing our fleet of vehicles to become too old and beyond the point where repairs arc practicable, and overstressing the manufacture of new vehicles so as to prejudice unduly the production of other vital needs. Great attention has, therefore, to be given to the maintenance of those vehicles. Assisted by skilled practical engineers, my Department, in collaboration with other Departments, see that there is a proper but not excessive supply of spare parts, materials, equipment, premises, machine facilities and labour. The rationing of rubber tyres is primarily the responsibility of the

1013
Ministry of Supply but, in view of our vital interest, that Department and mine are working in the closest collaboration.
A system whereby Government assistance is rendered to operators in urgent need of spare parts has been in operation for nearly a year and has proved most beneficial. The Essential Work (General Provisions) Order has been applied to the repair industry, and a redistribution of skilled labour for vehicle repairs is being undertaken. Everything is being done to press on repairers the need for diluting their labour and for taking on trainees, both male and female. Apart from increased attention to maintenance, one other method I have adopted to economize in vehicles has been to increase the numbers of standing passengers allowed in 'buses or trolley-buses. Since last August we have allowed single deck 'buses, the seats of which have been arranged lengthwise, to take thirty standing passengers. About 1,200 'buses have been or are being adapted so as to allow for this increase. Naturally it is much better to have a seat than to have to stand, but it is better to stand in a 'bus than to stand in a queue. I am happy to state that the conductors and conductresses have supported us splendidly in this experiment.
The road transport organization of my Department, acting through Regional Transport Commissioners, is a flexible machine not built for one purpose or to execute one fixed policy, but to manage an ever-changing set of circumstances many of them unpredictable, many of them transient, and many of them purely local. At the same time it is an organization that can apply compulsion firmly, when compulsion is needed. The vehicle strength of the country, both in 'buses and lorries, has remained constant since the early days of the war. As a result of the measures we are taking, I am confident that the fleet of vehicles which stood up to the immense strains put upon them after the air raids of 1940 and 1941, will be ready to meet any sudden and intensive demands that may occur in the future. Before leaving road transport I should add that the highways are on the whole being maintained in spite of difficulties of labour and materials. We are undertaking road or bridge improvements or constructions which are required by military traffic, or for access to Government establishments. The strengthening or reconstruction
1014
of about 100 road bridges has been undertaken since the beginning of the war.
There is one point which I should bring in here—namely, wayside amenities for road transport workers. For some time, in conjunction with the Ministries of Food and Labour, the transport and General Workers' Union and an employers' representative of the Road Haulage Central Wages Board have been dealing with the problem of wayside feeding and sleeping accommodation for drivers. These establishments have now been graded by the Ministry of Food and steps have been taken to ensure that proprietors know how to obtain their proper supplies. Some difficulty has been experienced in finding suitable labour, but we are asking the Minister of Labour to treat the establishments as works' canteens, and in appropriate places we are supporting application for deferment of call-up. These wayside cafés are not large, and depend very much on the personal work of the proprietor. They have done a great deal for the lorry driver. In conjunction with the Ministers of Food and Labour, I will make every effort to see that these people continue to get this service.
Canals, too, are playing their part in moving the vastly increased traffic of the country. The industry has had to adjust itself to many factors, such as sharp changes in the volume of imports at particular ports, the loss of export traffic, and the carriage of new types of traffic or traffic previously handled by other forms of transport. The late Mr. Frank Pick, in his Report on our canals, recommended as a first step the reconstituting and strengthening of the Regional Canal Committees. This has been done. The canals, together with the canal carriers, have been organized under six Regional Canal Committees composed of representatives of canal undertakings, carriers, the principal users of canal transport and trade unions. These Committees are the channel of communication between my Department and the industry. In accordance with Mr. Pick's recommendation there has also been set up a Central Canal Committee under the Chairmanship of the Parliamentary Secretary of the Ministry of War Transport. It meets regularly to consider questions of policy and special difficulties beyond the compass of a Regional Committee. I am glad to say

1015
that this organization functions smoothly and efficiently. Financial assistance has been given by the Government to canal carriers to enable them to meet increased expenses without unduly increasing their charges, for the provision of cranes and engines, and for the construction of warehouses, transit sheds and other installations which will relieve pressure on port working and thus assist in the quick turn-round of ocean-going ships.
As the noble Lord particularly mentioned Mr. Pick's Report, I will refer briefly to his other main recommendations to meet the war situation. Mr. Pick was concerned to protect labour employed. The Essential Works Order has been applied to the canals and has had the effect of stopping the drain of labour to other industries. At the same time much attention has been devoted to the recruitment of additional labour for maintenance and for manning the canal boats. In conjunction with the Ministry of Labour, we are continually seeking means of providing the labour needed, but in present conditions this is very difficult, and I cannot say that it has yet been solved. Mr. Pick recommended the provision of sorting stations, stores and transit sheds. A number of those suggested by Mr. Pick have been, or are in course of being, built, with the assistance of Government grants. We have also been active in securing the diversion of blocks of traffic to the canals. Departments have responded well to our requests to them to make the maximum use of this form of transport.
I have dealt with some of the principal features of Mr. Pick's Report and shown how we have met them. I will not trouble your Lordships with the many matters of detail we have dealt with, such as arrangements for feeding canal boatmen, who had difficulties in securing rations at points where their boats happened to be stopped. I must refer, however, to one matter which was a serious impediment to canal traffic during the severe weather last winter. Many miles of canal were frozen over, and while in some places measures were successfully taken to keep the waterway open, at others the absence of adequate appliances led to a considerable hold-up. The more adequate provision of ice-breakers before next winter is being tackled.
1016
The noble Lord asked whether we are using canals to the limit of their capacity. That is not a question which can be answered in a word. Some of the canals suffer by reason of the loss of export and coastal traffic, or of the falling off or irregular arrival of imports in convoy. They are used as fully as conditions permit; but I cannot say that they are used to their full capacity. In some cases the canals could be more fully used if crews could be provided to man the boats, and this is the subject of constant endeavour. Subject, however, to these limitations, I can say that we are giving the canals all the traffic they can carry and that our constant aim is to step up their capacity to carry more and more war traffic.
It may seem strange in a debate on inland transport that I should now wish to say a few words on coastwise shipping; but this is so intimately related to the inland transport system that it cannot be omitted. It is an impressive fact that in spite of attacks from the air, from surface craft, from submarine and mine, the volume of shipping employed in coastwise transport is greater to-day than in time of peace. The organization of coastal shipping depends on Control Committees established at the nine principal United Kingdom ports, with representatives at almost every other United Kingdom port used by coasting vessels. These Committees and representatives work under the direction of my Department and provide the decentralized machine for carrying out headquarters policy; they are of course in close contact with the Port Emergency Committees.
While coastal liner tonnage is requisitioned, coasting tramps work on a system of licensed voyages. I have found that the best results can be achieved in this way, because of the rapid succession of short voyages, the necessity for frequent rearrangement of programmes, the multiplicity of ownerships and the great diversity of trades concerned. No voyage can be undertaken without the approval of my coasting control organization. This control is exercised through a licensing system so that each voyage requires the approval of a Coasting Control Committee before it can be undertaken. In this way there is a complete safeguard against waste of shipping space, and it is possible to deal with cargo movements in order of their priority and to divert tonnage

1017
from one part of the coast to another promptly as may be necessary. The control which we exercise over coastal voyages by licensing and requisitioning enables us to use these ships to relieve inland transport. If a particular haul shows signs of congestion on the railways it is usually possible to give prompt relief by judicious use of coastwise tonnage.
I have now given a brief account of the separate working of each of the four main systems of inland transport and I hope I have shown that I have neglected no opportunity to improve our transport machinery. But I cannot close any review of our inland transport in war without a word of praise for the men and women who have been carrying on through many difficulties and often through dangers. Their jobs are not always spectacular; they are not often mentioned in the headlines; they do not make good copy for the newspapers, but, nevertheless, these thousands of men and women are carrying on day and night, making an indispensable contribution to the war effort in a fine spirit of determination. In thanking the workers I wish to include an expression of gratitude to the managerial transport staffs who have worked ungrudgingly to assist us.
It will easily be realized that the concentration under one Department of the whole chain of transport from the stowage of goods in our ships in overseas ports to the doors of our factories has made it possible to dovetail the different stages into one co-ordinated whole in a way that would not have been possible with responsibility divided. As Minister of War Transport I conceive it to be my task to weld the different engines of transport into a single weapon for war purposes; every other consideration must give way to that. No preconceived notion, no vested interest, no established practice or cherished tradition must stand in the way of our prime duty, which, your Lordships will agree, is to make a concentrated effort for victory.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, I am sure I am speaking for all your Lordships in thanking my noble friend for his very full and interesting account of the work of his Ministry. I should like to be allowed to suggest that steps should be taken to broadcast his statement that more coastal shipping is now being employed than before the war. That was remark
1018
ably good news and I hope that it will be broadcast and made known everywhere. I congratulate my noble friend on that and on many other things that he told us, particularly the. measures taken for decasualization of dock labour and the transference of dock labour. My noble friend delighted me by his account of the working of the unification scheme on the railways. How he is going to unscramble that omelette after the war I do not know. My noble friend below me said he had made out the greatest case for nationalization that we have ever heard. However, I do not wish to pursue that.
I desire only to make two brief suggestions. One has reference to what was said by my noble friend Lord Sempill. One of the complaints made in the recent debate on producer-gas vehicles when the Government were defeated—I am glad to say I was one of those voting against the Government—was that the programme of 10,000 vehicles was too small. The House voted for 50,000. I hope that will be favourably considered. The other matter I want to comment on is railway travel. I was very glad to hear that my noble friend will resist the rationing of railway travel. There is too much rationing. It is not a thing to introduce for the sake of doing it. I do not think many people to-day really travel for pleasure on any sort of public vehicle. I hope my noble friend will continue to resist the rationing and issuing of coupons for travel. I would remind him that one of the greatest Ministers of Transport was Haroun al Raschid, who used to travel about the city and see how his lieges were faring. I hope my noble friend the Minister goes about disguised or travels very quietly in public vehicles, and I should like to suggest that he should insist on his permanent officials doing the same. They should travel like ordinary people and then they would see where the shoe pinches. I thank my noble friend for his very full statement and I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.

WOOD ALCOHOL.
LORD TEVIOT: My Lords, I beg to ask the first question standing on the Paper in my name.
[The question was as follows:
To ask His Majesty's Government, what steps are being taken to trace and punish those manufacturing and selling wood alcohol under the guise of whisky.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE): My Lords, my noble friend's question rather suggests that wood alcohol is being or has been manufactured for sale as whisky. My information is that neither wood alcohol nor its modern synthetic equivalent, methanol, is being manufactured for sale for drinking purposes. The position is being very carefully watched, and vigilance is being exercised by the Board of Customs and Excise and by the Police. Such reports as have reached them about the drinking of wood alcohol or methanol suggest that the very small quantities which are known to have been consumed were legitimately manufactured for commercial or chemical purposes and were obtained by theft. To theft the ordinary criminal law applies and there are also penalties in respect of offences against the Spirits Act, 1880, and the Food and Drugs Act, 1938. My right honourable friend will take steps to investigate every case which is brought to his notice.
LORD TEVIOT: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the answer which he has given. Arising out of that answer, I would like to stress what, apparently—in view of what he has said—does not seem to be appreciated, and that is that all over the country, even in some of the best hotels in London, wood alcohol in the guise of whisky is poisoning people. To my certain knowledge friends of mine in a very eminent hotel in London have just escaped death through very abstemious drinking. I hope that my noble friend will take steps to find out who is making this stuff, and punish them with the utmost rigour of the law.
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE: With your Lordships' permission, may I again say that my noble friend's information does not quite agree with mine. My information is that there have been recently two cases of deaths due to the consumption of methyl alcohol or methanol. In
1020
the one case two seamen in London purchased from a dock worker a quantity of home-made wine which he represented that he had made himself, and which he had, actually, fortified with methanol which he had stolen from the docks. The seamen died and the dock worker was duly convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment. He is in prison now. The other case was a case of theft in the Glasgow docks by dockers, and some dozen persons died from the effects of drinking stolen spirit. My right honourable friend tells me that he will investigate every case that is brought to his notice. I should say that he has certainly not heard of the matters to which my noble friend Lord Teviot alludes, and if my noble friend will supply the necessary details I am sure that this will be thoroughly looked into.
LORD TEVIOT: With the permission of the House, may I say that I will certainly give to my noble friend particulars of the cases which I have in mind?

RAID INFORMATION.
LORD TEVIOT: My Lords, I beg to ask the second question standing in my name.
[The question was as follows:
To ask His Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the statements made by the British Broadcasting Corporation and in the Press giving facts about the cities recently bombed in this country, which is some respects might convey information useful to the enemy.]
THE MINISTER OF ECONOMIC WARFARE (THE EARL OF SELBORNE): My Lords, I am aware of a recent case in which a detail was disclosed prematurely owing to a censor's error of judgment. In general, however, my right honourable friend is satisfied that the present code of censorship rules is so designed as to deal with the complex problem of air-raid stories in an intelligent and practical manner, and all sections of the Press and the B.B.C. have been most loyal and helpful in carrying out its requirements. I should like to make it quite plain to your Lordships that if a mistake was made on the occasion to

1021
which my noble friend, I think, refers, it was a mistake on the part of the censor, and the B.B.C. and the Press were in no way responsible. They were merely transmitting to the public information which had been issued to them. The matter has been taken notice of, and I am sure that nothing of this sort will occur again.

PEMBROKESHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL BILL. [H.L.]
The King's consent signified and Bill reported with Amendments.
PRINCESS ELIZABETH OF YORK HOSPITAL FOR CHILDREN AND QUEEN'S HOSPITAL FOR CHILDREN (AMALGAMATION, &c.) BILL. [H.L.]
Reported, with Amendments.
BOMBAY BARODA AND CENTRAL INDIA RAILWAY BILL.
Reported, with Amendments.

PROCEDURE OF THE HOUSE.
Leave given to the Committee to report from time to time. First Report made; and to be printed.
House adjourned.