HL Deb 07 October 1941 vol 120 cc157-61

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Templemore.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]

Clause 1:

Alteration of place of marriage. 1.—(1) Where the parties to an intended marriage have duly fulfilled all the conditions required by law for enabling them to be married in a building in England, then, if either of the parties, being a member of His Majesty's Forces, has obtained from the appropriate authority a certificate that owing to the exigencies of His Majesty's service he or she cannot go to that building, the marriage may, during the war period—

  1. (a) be lawfully solemnized in any other building in England in which marriages may be lawfully solemnized, as if the parties had duly fulfilled all the conditions required by law for enabling them to be married in that building or
  2. (b) be lawfully celebrated by a minister in Scotland, or contracted in the office of an authorised registrar in Scotland, as if the parties had duly fulfilled all the conditions required by law for enabling the marriage to be so celebrated or contracted.

LORD PHILLIMORE moved, in subsection (1), after "that," where that word first occurs, to insert "the party under his authority is not to the best of his belief already married and that." The noble Lord said: This is a very simple Amendment. Under this Bill the venue of a prospective marriage can be changed on account of Service requirements which have necessitated the prospective husband being moved, often at the last moment, from where he was serving, possibly to the other end of the country. Where it is thought desirable that marriage should take place—as is unfortunately sometimes too often the case—there is nothing to be said against the Bill whatever, but it does remove a certain check on improvident marriages which would have existed otherwise. It must be obvious to all your Lordships that a girl, ordinarily speaking, marries in an atmosphere of her own people and her own relations, in her own countryside or her own street or suburb, where not only parental caution but the general opinion of the neighbourhood accounts for a great deal. Under this Bill that very useful piece of social security may be removed at the last moment because the marriage can, with the assent of the prospective bridegroom's Commanding Officer, be removed to quite a different part of England.

It is unfortunately the case that in the last war a number of soldiers overseas serving in this country contracted bigamous marriages with girls who were in no position to know the status of the husband in his own country. Therefore my Amendment provides that the Commanding Officer of the unit in which the man is serving must state that, so far as his knowledge goes, there is no objection to the marriage taking place. It may be asked, why lay this on the Commanding Officer? In the first place the Commanding Officer has to issue the certificate which makes it possible to change the venue of the marriage; and in the second place he is in a position to judge from the separation allowances in most cases whether the man is making an allowance to a relation, say, in one of the Dominions, and may know, and generally does know, whether the man is married and whether the wife is still alive. I suggest that there can be no doubt that there would be a very considerable protection to the girl if the affidavit of the Commanding Officer is required that—only so far as he knows—there is no objection to the marriage taking place. For these reasons I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 9, after (" that ") insert (" the party under his authority is not to the best of his belief already married and that ").—(Lord Phillimore.)

LORD TEMPLEMORE

I am sorry that I cannot accept the Amendment of my noble friend for the following reasons. First, the Amendment has been discussed with Parliamentary Counsel who has been in touch with the Lord Advocate and the Registrar-General, both of whom are strongly opposed to the Amendment. As drafted it applies only to England, but it is clear that if it were accepted it would have to be applied to Scotland as well and a corresponding Amendment made to the Bill. That no doubt could be done. But what the Government feel is that obstacles in the way of marriage have already been overcome before the certificate in question is given, except so far as change of the place at which the marriage is to take place is concerned. Any additional obstacle therefore seems either unnecessary or to imply that the existing safeguards are inadequate, a view for which there does not appear to be any justification. I may say that not only the Admiralty but the War Office and the Air Ministry concur with the view that the Amendment should be opposed. I am very much afraid, therefore, that I cannot accept it, and I hope that after what I have said the noble Lord will see his way to withdraw it.

LORD ADDISON

May I appeal to the noble Lord to give this matter consideration at all events on the Report stage? The principles surely which underlie this Amendment are quite reasonable, and the mere fact that the method of achieving the object which Lord Phillimore has outlined does not meet with the Government approval, is not a reason against the Amendment from the point of view of justice and common sense.

VISCOUNT MAUGHAM

May I say this? There is no doubt that the grievance or harm which the noble Lord who has proposed this Amendment has emphasized is a very serious one. It is terrible that a poor English girl should find that she has contracted a marriage which is void as being bigamous and that no steps should be taken to prevent such a thing happening. If the Amendment in its present form cannot be passed, at least this might be done: there should be an order from the War Office, the Admiralty and so on to the proper persons, that before granting the certificate which is pointed at in Clause 1, subsection (1) of the present Bill, they should take steps to satisfy themselves that the soldier or other person who has been asking for the certificate is not, at the same time, a person who has given the requisite notice that a part of his pay is to be deflected to somebody as being his wife. That at any rate might be done. It seems to me most unsatisfactory to leave the matter just as it is, with officers simply being told that John Smith wants to marry but cannot get to the particular place and thereupon, as a matter of form, a certificate is issued that he cannot conveniently go to the church. That is not the only matter to be considered. The matter to be considered is whether there is some reason why he should not go to the church. I cannot see why something should not be done to meet this problem.

THE LORD BISHOP OF WINCHESTER

I should like to join in asking my noble friend to give this careful consideration before the Report stage is reached. I had not seen the Amendment before I got to this House, so I am not able to express any opinion on its construction. I do know, though, that there-is very considerable anxiety about increases in the number of cases of bigamy, and if this Amendment or some similar one will in any way check this evil, I think that it ought to be very carefully considered. I hope that the noble Lord will find it possible to see that it receives further consideration.

LORD TEMPLEMORE

It is impossible to withstand the appeals which have been made by the noble Lord who proposed this Amendment, by the noble Lord opposite, Lord Addison, by Lord Maugham and by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester. What I suggest, therefore, is this. If my noble friend Lord Phillimore would withdraw his Amendment, I would see that a Government Amendment might be brought forward for the next stage of the Bill which could be submitted to the noble Lord to see if he agrees before it is put on the Paper. There is one point that I should like to make clear. The right reverend Prelate spoke of the Report stage. If this Amendment is withdrawn there will not be a Report stage; but there will of course be a Third Reading, and if my noble friend Lord Phillimore will accept my assurances and withdraw the Amendment, I shall be glad to do what I can to meet his wishes.

LORD PHILLIMORE

I understand from what the noble Lord has said, that the Government will introduce an Amendment to meet the difficulties which I have in view. I therefore beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 1 agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Schedules agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.

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