HL Deb 28 January 1941 vol 118 cc246-57

LORD PHILLIMORE rose to draw the attention of His Majesty's Government to the heavy imports of wood and timber and to the apparently insufficient use of homegrown timber; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I am afraid there are very few of us who are so young in years that we cannot remember that the import of timber during the last war was one of the most serious menaces with which we had to deal. Timber of course constitutes a bulky cargo, and is relatively per cubic foot of cargo space of a low value. There is, therefore, every kind of advantage in cutting down our imports of timber to the smallest possible extent. In addition during this war there is another new and an unpleasant factor which makes timber imports in terms of cargo space and sailors' lives even more important and more dangerous. Instead of the comparatively short run from Norway or Sweden our timber, as the Controller pointed out the other day in the newspapers, very largely has to come from Canada, where, indeed, it has to be hauled the whole length of the Canadian Pacific line, and in some cases from Vancouver to the Eastern coast, while after that the same timber has to cross the Atlantic. I venture to think, therefore, that that is a matter which is well worthy of your Lordships' attention.

We are, of course, to a large extent dependent for our supplies of timber on imported produce, and both because the landowner in England has had very small encouragement to develop his forests and because such forests as were fit to use in the last war were very largely denuded, the difficulty of filling the gap from homegrown timber is admittedly considerable. My object, however, is to show that not all has been done that could have been done. I think that so far I am on common ground. And now I would like to call your Lordships' attention to what are the key figures in this respect. Unfortunately, as far as I am concerned I am confined to figures expressed in pounds, shillings and pence, because the weight and cubic footage are not available to me, but I am hoping that the noble Lord who replies to me will be able to produce those figures. As far as pounds, shillings and pence are concerned in 1938, before the war, we imported £39,000,000 worth of timber against £34,000,000 worth in 1940. As we were still importing £34,000,000 worth in 1939 we imported almost the same figure as in 1940. That means that the only economy in pounds, shillings and pence that we have made amounts to nothing more than £5,100,727. I submit that these imports remain at far too high a figure. I do not believe that we can afford cargo space for timber on this scale, and I do not think we ought to afford it. On this side we know that, although many camps are going up and that they use a considerable amount of timber, private building is at an end. Private building was easily the sphere in which the great bulk of timber, and especially imported timber, was used.

I made an attempt to analyse the 1938 figures to show the relative importance of the various classes of imports, and I think the result will have some little in- terest for your Lordships. Of hard wood we imported £6,500,000 worth, of pit props £4,500,000 worth, and of sleepers £1,900,000 worth—a total approximately of £12,000,000 worth. This, roughly speaking, can be produced from the timber in this country. I believe that already the railways have been induced to use oak and elm for sleepers, and I believe that our pit-prop position is very far from being unsatisfactory—in other words, that we have been able to find the pit props required. There remain the hard woods with which England is comparatively densely furnished, and which, except for a few woods like teak, ought not in my view to be imported at all during the war. That £12,000,000 worth, which I contend could quite comfortably, roughly speaking, be produced from our home efforts, amounts to two-fifths of the total imports. The remaining three-fifths consisted of sawn soft woods which, admittedly, we are ill-equipped to provide, but still even theresome small contribution can be made to the totals required. But if you cut out the two-fifths to which I have already referred you would reduce our imports at one stroke from £35,000,000 to £23,000,000—a very considerable saving whether it is translated into pounds, shil-lings and pence or whether it is counted on a cubic-foot basis.

Now it will not be much use drawing attention to these figures unless I had some small contribution to make by way of suggestion as an improvement in the handling of this timber. I submit that it is up to the Timber Control to see that they are making full use of our homegrown supply. They have the power to do this and nobody else has. They are apparently fairly pleased with themselves, for in The Times of December 24, 1940, there appeared an article headed "Woodlands and the War. British substitutes for overseas timber. How felled English trees save shipping supplies." Any reader of that article, which I cannot help thinking was a communicated article, must have thought that all was being done to substitute home-grown timber for imported timber, but the figures to which I have already drawn your attention tell a different tale. As far as my own observations are concerned I do not find—and certain other noble Lords would certainly support me in this—that any fairly comprehensive attempt has yet even been initiated to obtain every possible cubic foot of timber that can be supplied by our own woods and forests.

I have admitted that those woods and forests were largely denuded in the last war, but again, in the last war, whoever was in control naturally went for the big blocks and cleared them. Now Great Britain is a country of shaws and hedges and groves and belts and coppices; that is to say, there are in Great Britain small parcels of woodland, which could be worked by the State, even with State extravagance and the number of staff that seems to be associated with any State venture and which the State could survey and arrange for the felling and transport of the timber thereon. One noble Lord wrote to me this morning pointing out that it apparently took four surveyors all their time to decide which of these woods they would buy, and how they could be dealt with, and that sometimes all four of these surveyors arrived at the same time. I think it was the same noble Lord who has also written to me stating that land girls are being paid extravagant sums per week to bark timber—a job which could better be done by the estate staff—and that the estate staff were considerably offended because these wholly ignorant girls were receiving nearly double the money that they were getting under the Agricultural Wages Board.

These smaller woodlands are well worth attention. Let any noble Lord travel down, say, to Somerset and observe on the way the quantity of elm that there is in the hedges in Wiltshire—and elm can be used for many purposes, including sleepers. Or let him go through Hampshire and see the quantity of good oak standing there, or to the Chilterns where he will find beeches which, except in one or two larger blocks, are practically unused. Let him even go to Scotland and there he will find considerable areas of large conifers—I saw them myself the other day—which are not touched by the axe. The Control may reply, and I am sure would reply, that these smaller woodlands to which I am drawing attention would be expensive to work. But at the very beginning of things, before the war was even started, the landowners and the trade were called together by the Forestry Commission, which was then in charge of home-grown timber, to arrange a schedule of maximum prices. That was duly done, and as a fact prevents the landowner from making anything but the most moderate profit, so that it cannot be said I am here to urge Parliament to put money into the pockets of the landowners. The price schedule as far as landowners are concerned is the most moderate that you could imagine.

During the course of this discussion it was proposed and finally very grudgingly agreed that local advisory committees should be set up in each timber region to assist the official—I have forgotten what he is called—who runs a region, and in particular to furnish him with information as to the smaller parcels of wood which members of the committee could give through their own local knowledge and the local knowledge of their friends and colleagues. They could give information as to the location of this wood, classify and describe it, and put the Forestry Commission machinery in touch with it. That would have saved an immense amount of touring about by State officials, and it would have been effective, because it would have been preceded by a statement on the part of the State officials as to exactly what kind of timber they were looking for. Landowners would have brought in their agents to help them, and if the Timber Control had thought fit they would have brought in their workmen to cut down the trees which were finally selected. As it is, large gangs have to be formed—mostly, I believe, of imported labour—to deal with the large blocks of timber which have been selected, and the day-to-day work of the estate woodmen is thought of no account, whereas, as a matter of fact, the cheapest way of getting anything done is to get it done by local labour which does not have to find billets and is regulated by the wages board and does not demand any extravagant price.

These small parcels must, if we are going to cut down imports, be brought into the light of day, and I would in this connection refer your Lordships to what I think you will all admit is the great success of the agricultural executive committees in getting the ploughing-up policy put into operation. Your Lordships all know that this work has been done almost entirely for nothing by bodies of farmers who have been got together in each rural district, each rural district working with another voluntary and honorary body which deals with the whole county. In that way a survey has been made of every farm in England. That survey has been completed, and completed as a matter of fact in a very short time, and will be of the greatest possible assistance to the nation. If that work were a success, if it were done so cheaply, if it were done so effectively and with so much technical skill and knowledge, why was not the same principle applied to the hunting out of timber where the production campaign is just as necessary as in the case of growing crops? That is my suggestion of one way in which to meet the situation, but I shall continue to protest if imported supplies of timber are not greatly reduced. I beg to move for Papers.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF SUPPLY (LORD PORTAL)

My Lords, in rising to reply to the Motion standing in the noble Lord's name I would like to point out at the outset that the Ministry of Supply are directing all their efforts and energies to reducing imports of wood and timber and increasing by all methods possible the use of home-grown timber. The noble Lord stated at the beginning of his speech that he was not able to see certain figures which would give him the knowledge he required. I think that, with your Lordships' permission, the best thing I can do is to give you a survey of what is going on in regard to imported and homegrown timber and at the same time answer the question put by the noble Lord. In the first year of the war our imports were reduced by more than half of what we were importing in our pre-war programme. Of course in making comparisons we have to bear in mind that owing to freightage and other things—but mostly owing to freightage—the price of timber has gone up very largely. Anyhow, in the first year we reduced imports by more than half. In the present year we propose to reduce them by at least 33 per cent. on the first year, and we hope that we shall be able to achieve even more. Your Lordships will understand why I do not give actual figures and why I am using percentages.

The production of home-grown timber during the first year of the war was increased by approximately four and a half times, while in this year we hope to increase it by seven times on our pre-war figures. That sounds extraordinarily good, but I am not here to say that we at the Ministry of Supply are pleased or satisfied with what has been done, because at a crisis like this you should never be satisfied with the efforts made, but should always take the view that there is a great deal more to be done than is being done. That I hope is our view at the Ministry of Supply. As I say, we hope to increase production by seven times, but although that sounds an enormous figure, it is only fair to state that at the beginning of the war production was not very large. It is a great advance, but I do not want your Lordships to be misled into thinking that an increase of seven times is a very enormous figure. The most important thing, as the noble Lord pointed out, is the release of shipping space now used for timber so that we may leave more space for essential war commodities which have to be imported into this country. We have reduced it, as I have said, by 50 per cent. in the first year and by another certain 33 per cent. this year, which should help to release our shipping.

The expansion of home-grown production depends primarily on the supply of labour and machinery, but just as important as those factors is a good organisation behind them. It must also be remembered that this home-grown trade was not being carried on in a large way before the war started. At the Ministry of Supply we have received every assistance from the Forestry Commissioners in this work, and about three months ago the Minister of Supply appointed Sir James Calder as Director of Home-Grown Timber and instructed him to co-ordinate and press forward with the work. Sir James Calder, as many of your Lordships will be aware, was associated with timber in the last war and has great knowledge of the subject. He himself directs the organisation of homegrown production either by the trade or by the Production Department of the Ministry of Supply. He is now operating Scotland as an independent unit, with Sir Samuel Steel responsible to him for the organisation of the trade and of the De- partment in Scotland. Until a short time ago Scotland was combined with England and had to be dealt with from England, but so much time was spent in that way that it was thought better to run Scotland as a separate entity under the co-ordination of Sir James Caldcr. Divisional officers are responsible in the various districts or areas for issuing selling licences and organising departmental production in their divisions, while assistant area officers co-operate with the divisional officers in seeing that timber merchants obtain adequate supplies of timber to work their mills to capacity, and also in seeing, through the issue of licences, that home-grown timber is utilised to the fullest possible extent. The distribution of home-grown timber is directed by the Timber Control in the same way as in the case of imported timber.

The noble Lord raised the question of what he called small parcels of timber. During the last two or three months we have pointed out that it is as well to take the difficult jobs with the easy ones. If you take away all the large growths of timber in one place and leave the more difficult task, it does not make for progress in next year's timber programme. We have therefore laid it down that there should be 50 per cent. of each of these categories. The noble Lord also raised the question of advisory committees. I was very interested in this, and will go into it at once. I would only point out now that, as I am sure the noble Lord will agree, the war agricultural committees are not in quite the same category; for, although I agree that more use should be made of the landlords' own woodmen in cutting down timber for small parcels, yet when the war agricultural committees get land ploughed up it must be remembered that they have the ploughmen on the spot, whereas if large quantities of timber have to be cut down it will be necessary to import or transfer labour for the purpose.

I think your Lordships will be interested to learn that there is now an Assistant Controller who is responsible for extending the substitution of home-grown for imported timber and for drawing up specifications which can be fitted to home production. One of our difficulties is that of getting the various Departments to use in their specifications hard wood from England rather than imported wood. That is the particular task of the Assistant Controller. In order to spread the difficulties of production, we are insisting that the cutting of easy stands of timber shall be accompanied by the cutting of roadside timber and remote stands. I am sure that the noble Lord will agree with that. We have recently—and I consider this an important point—initiated a national stock of home-grown timber, which has for its main purpose to get the trade to continue felling timber and not to work to actual orders received. As this country was not organised for timber production before the war, we had a number of energetic but small men who, perhaps, had not sufficient working capital to carry on; but if, as has now been done, a national stock of home-grown timber is instituted, that difficulty should be overcome.

On the question of labour, home labour has been increased three times in numbers. This includes three R.E. Companies and two Pioneer Companies. In addition, your Lordships will be glad to hear that Empire labour is also assisting, including a civilian unit of Newfoundlanders and Dominion Companies from Australia, New Zealand and Canada. The advance party has just arrived from Canada. Many of these units require hutments to be built, and these are now progressing satisfactorily. We are working closely with the Ministry of Labour on these questions. As regards machinery, timber merchants have been encouraged to put in new machinery where practicable. Portable mills have been put down in increasing numbers, both large and small, while new mills are being established as they come forward. Active steps are being taken to help timber merchants to secure machinery, and latterly bulk orders have been placed by the Department on behalf of the trade. In securing machinery, we have had certain difficulties, due to the present supply system, in regard to obtaining sufficient transport and haulage equipment, but we are now overcoming them. There is, as your Lordships know, competition for the necessary transport and haulage, but I think we are well on our way to solving the problem there.

With regard to the position of soft woods in this country—larch, fir and spruce—they are being extensively used for pitprops, and the expansion of home production of mining timber should supply almost all our requirements, apart from some imported pit props which we have in stock. I hope that our pit props this year will all be supplied from home-grown timber. Moreover, the total requirements for telegraph and transmission poles will be met from home-grown conifers. Soft woods are also in heavy demand for constructional purposes, such as hutting, and are progressively replacing imported timber for boxes, crates and packing cases. This use of home-grown timber will be further developed by the more extensive use of drying kilns. Some members of your Lordships' House will understand these technical methods better than I do, but the drying kiln for maturing wood is of great assistance in getting the wood dried quickly and used quickly instead of a long time being necessary for maturing.

Hard woods present a more difficult problem, although they are replacing imported hard woods increasingly. There are many specifications, I am glad to say, which are now being changed in favour of home-grown wood. As the noble Lord said, the railway companies have recently agreed to make use of home-grown oak for sleepers, wagon bottoms and wagon sheetings, while it is also being used for some types of packing cases and ammunition boxes. Home-grown beeches are now being used for the manufacture of rifles. To secure the maximum use of home-grown hard woods, it is necessary that large stocks should be held in a seasoned condition. That is another reason why the initiation of a national stock will be helpful.

Before I sit down, I expect that your Lordships would like me to touch on two points which may be of interest. One is the question of reafforestation. In 1930, 28,000 acres were replanted by the Forestry Commission, and I believe that the same figure is envisaged for the ensuing year. That is a matter in which I am sure some people will be interested. Then there is a question about which I, as Parliamentary Secretary, hear a great deal, the question of amenity. I think that the best thing I can do is to tell you how we are trying to deal with this matter. On October 2, 1939, a memorandum on the subject was issued by the Forestry Commissioners to the landowners' associations and federations for general distribution, and the following paragraph deals with this subject: The fellings which would be necessary in the course of a three-year programme would undoubtedly have a severe effect on the amenities of individual estates and of the countryside at large. Sacrifices will doubtless be necessary but it is hoped that everybody will make an attempt to mitigate at least the grosser evils which accompany extensive clear fellings. The divisional officers who issue licences to fell standing trees are allowed to use their discretion in the matter of amenity trees and past experience has proved that this has worked satisfactorily. Up to date several cases have been referred to the Department, and it has been possible in all instances to satisfy both vendors and purchasers. From time to time lists of stands of timber having amenity value are supplied to the Department by the Town and Country Planning Branch of the Ministry of Health. A further safeguard should also be the Forestry Commissioners who are now serving with our organisation.

I have tried to supply your Lordships' House with as much information as possible. We quite appreciate the importance of making use of home-grown timber, and I would welcome any constructive suggestion from the noble Lord in whose name this Motion stands or any other member of your Lordships' House. On behalf of the Ministry I should like to say in conclusion that great help could still be given us to try to save our shipping of imported hard timbers if people would help us by adjusting their specifications to some of the hard woods of which we have got goodly quantities in this country. I would add also that while I would associate myself with anybody who would work either with me or under me, I assure your Lordships that I have never myself written anything in The Times in praise of the work that the Timber Control is doing, because I believe that if you do that you become smug, and if you become smug in these days of warfare, you are not helping the industry which you are trying to direct.

LORD PHILLIMORE

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for the reply that he has given. Your Lordships will agree with me that it was of very considerable interest and, I may say, of some comfort. At any rate it shows that under the noble Lord's energetic direction much more is going to be done than has been done hitherto to avoid the use of excessive cargo space for imported timber. I would only conclude by urging upon him to see that his Department makes use of local help and does not fight it the whole time. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.

Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.