HL Deb 08 April 1941 vol 118 cc1018-21

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Wright.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[THE EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Delivery of accountant's certificates to Registrar]:

LORD WRIGHT moved to add to the clause: (8) Where a solicitor is employed as a public officer (as defined in subsection (2) of Section four of the Solicitors Act, 1933)— (a) nothing in this section shall apply to him unless he takes out a practising certificate; (b) an accountant's certificate shall in no case deal with books or accounts kept by him in the course of his employment as such public officer, nor shall any examination be made of those books and accounts under the Accountant's Certificate Rules.

The noble and learned Lord said: I beg to move an additional subsection, which will be number (8). In the words set out in the notice of Amendment the object of that Amendment is to exempt from the operation of the Bill solicitors who are public officers, and who fulfil the functions of public solicitors. The definition of "public officers" for this purpose is taken from the Act of 1933, and it means various Crown and Government solicitors whose charges are defrayed out of public funds, money provided by Parliament, Crown revenues and the funds of various public bodies. The exemption only applies to these gentlemen in their capacity of public officers. In so far as they are dealing with private practice they will be subject to the provisions of the Bill, and, of course, nothing in the clause shall apply to a public officer in any case unless he takes out a practising certificate.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 8, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Wright.)

LORD MANCROFT

I support that proposal, but I am in doubt as to whether it goes far enough, or whether my noble and learned friend could not make some provision to cover, in a similar way, those solicitors solely employed, as, say for example, solicitor to a railway company, and who do no other work than the company's work. In another case a solicitor may be employed in no other capacity than as chairman of a bank or as solicitor to an insurance company. I should like to think that the protection which my noble and learned friend wishes to extend to certain types of solicitor should also cover those whom I have just described. Perhaps my noble and learned friend can say something on this matter.

LORD JESSEL

May I ask whether what has been said also applies to solicitors employed as town clerks, and who do nothing else?

LORD WRIGHT

These questions have been discussed as between the Government representatives and the Law Society and they have come to the conclusion, with which I agree, that the exemption contained in the Amendment which I have just read is sufficient. In the Act of 1933, which deals, of course, with the obligation to comply with the rules as to the keeping of accounts made by the Law Society, there was a further exemption, of county officers and officers of local authorities and statutory undertakings; but it has been considered that it is neither desirable nor necessary to extend the exemption as far as that in this case. Of course, if these gentlemen do not take out practising certificates—and I gather that most of them will not—then nothing in the measure applies to them at all, because the Bill applies only to solicitors who take out a practising certificate, and that is how I ask that the Bill should stand.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2:

Compensation Fund.

(5) The Society may borrow money for the purposes of the Compensation Fund from any lender provided that the sum or sums owing at any one time in respect of such loans shall not in the aggregate exceed one hundred thousand pounds, and the Society may by way of security for any such loan charge any investments of the Compensation Fund.

LORD WRIGHT moved, at the end of subsection (5), to insert: Provided that so long as the making of an issue of capital in the United Kingdom, without the consent of the Treasury, is prohibited by Regulations made under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Acts, 1939 and 1940, it shall not be lawful for the Society to exercise the powers of borrowing conferred by this subsection without such consent.

The noble and learned Lord said: This deals with the fund which the Law Society will be keeping for purposes of compensation. Subsection (5) provides that the Society may borrow money for purposes of the compensation fund, subject to various conditions. The additional proviso which this Amendment, which is proposed at the request of the Treasury, would add, is that so long as the present Regulations made under Emergency Powers (Defence) Acts require the sanction of the Treasury to any borrowing, the powers of borrowing under subsection (5) shall not be exercised without the consent of the Treasury. I suggest that that is a perfectly proper provision.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 28, at end insert the said proviso.—(Lord Wright.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 3 to 17 agreed to.

Clause 18 [Council to make rules as to certain matters]:

LORD WRIGHT moved to insert: (3) Nothing in this section shall affect the Treasury Solicitor acting in his capacity as such.

The noble and learned Lord said: Clause 18 deals with what I may call trustee solicitors, solicitors who are trustees, and it is desired by this Amendment, which is proposed at the request of the Treasury, to provide that nothing in this clause shall affect the Treasury Solicitor acting in his capacity as such. That simply means that the Treasury Solicitor, who, in the course of his official duties, has often to assume the position of trustee in respect of a number of public trusts, shall not be subject to the various provisions of this clause as to the keeping of accounts, the audit of accounts and so on.

Amendment moved— Page 15, line 25, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Wright.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 18, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Schedules agreed to.

Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended, Bill read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.