Lords Sitting of 7 September 1939

Preamble
The House met at three of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

THE WAR: PRESENT POSITION.
3.5 p.m.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government if they have any statement to make on the present position.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (EARL STANHOPE): My Lords, the House will, I am sure, realise that it is only possible for me to give a general indication of the present situation and of the state of our defences. There is necessarily a number of matters to which, in the public interest, it is impossible to refer. With that necessary preamble I will give the House a résumé of the position.
In the East the Poles are fighting hard against a strong and ruthless enemy, who is relying on the weight of numbers and material to crush all opposition. The Polish soldier has ever shown himself to be a courageous and determined fighter; and to-day he is worthily maintaining this tradition. Against overwhelming superiority in the air, outnumbered and outgunned, he is contesting every yard of the German advance. The Germans have often stressed the need for a short war and a quick decision. In pursuance of this idea the German plan appears to be to concentrate their first main effort against Poland, and as the House is aware, that country was invaded just over a week ago without any formal declaration of war. In spite of the human and material losses which they have already suffered, the morale and courage of the Polish people remain unaffected. His Majesty's Government and the French Government have to-day signed an agreement with the Polish Government for the provision of further financial assistance to Poland to enable her to replenish her resources.
In the West, France has, like ourselves, mobilised her forces with complete efficiency
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and smoothness and they are now in contact with the enemy on their common frontier. Certain information has been published of what has taken place, but, for obvious reasons, no details can yet be disclosed. The outbreak of war has found the same spirit, determination and solidarity among the French people as is evident here. The understanding between the two countries is complete, and the arrangements, which have now been put into force, for co-operation in all the activities concerned with the prosecution of the war, are working smoothly and well.
In this country the defensive military dispositions of our Army, which cover a very wide field, were made in good time owing to the precautionary measures which it was decided to adopt during the period of tension. The manning of the Anti-Aircraft and Coast Defences was efficiently carried out. Within a short time of calling out the units guns and searchlights were fully manned. Since a large number of the Anti-Aircraft units were in camp and away from their home stations this reflects great credit on their organisation. The guarding of vulnerable points has been taken over by the National Defence Companies supplemented by personnel of the Territorial Army. The personnel reached their posts with the minimum of delay and under trying weather conditions. The mobilisation of the remainder of the Army has been carried out with the greatest smoothness. The morale of all ranks is high. In particular, the spirit of the reservists recalled from civil life, some of whom have already this year been called up for training, is excellent. I should like to make special mention of the women of the Auxiliary Territorial Services who are performing many tasks under arduous conditions and thereby relieving soldiers for fighting duties.
Turning to the naval side the most important feature up to the present has been the development of German U-boat attacks on our shipping. The sinking of the "Athenia" with its scenes of death and terror virtually opened the war and no denials or inventions on the part of Germany will convince the public of German innocence of this crime, which has profoundly shocked and horrified the world. Apart from the case of the

1019
"Athenia" there have been attacks on other British merchant ships by German U-boats, and three or four ships have been sunk. On our side the Admiralty have taken immediate counter measures. British destroyers and other anti-submarine craft have been very active, and large reinforcements of anti-submarine and escort vessels are rapidly becoming available. As my right honourable friend the First Lord has already informed another place, steps are being taken to establish a convoy system at the earliest possible moment. This method of protection can obviously only be instituted after the outbreak of war and it takes time to bring it fully into operation, but the House can be satisfied that it is being applied with the utmost possible speed and vigour. Most of the ships which have been attacked hitherto are vessels which commenced their voyages before war had broken out, and naturally, for them the full scope of our defensive organisation could not immediately provide. While a certain proportion of weekly losses must be expected, and we must not minimise the threat to our shipping, I think the House and the country may rest assured that the Navy, with all their war time experience of handling this problem, and with the added advantage of the methods of submarine detection and destruction which have since been developed, will increasingly bring the problem under control.
His Majesty's Government would next like to pay their tribute to the very gallant attack which was made by units of the Royal Air Force on certain German warships off Wilhelmshaven, during which at least two hits were secured on one of the so-called pocket battleships. It will be realised that the objectives attacked—namely, the German Fleet bases at Wilhelmshaven and at the entrance to the Kiel Canal—are probably among the most strongly defended points in Germany. The manner in which the Royal Air Force attacks were pressed home despite the strength of the defences is worthy of the highest praise. Mention must be made of the weather conditions prevailing on the afternoon of the attack. Visibility was extremely poor, and the final stages of the attack are stated to have been carried out in a blinding rainstorm. A high degree of navigational
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skill was thus necessary to enable the attack to reach its objective at all, and the fact that hits were registered demonstrates the ability of the Royal Air Force to carry out its attacks under conditions of great difficulty.
Finally, I think it right to stress the fact that a high proportion of the officers and men in the squadrons concerned have entered the Royal Air Force and received their training since expansion began. The House may also be interested to learn that those who took part in the attack included a number who came from the Dominions. As the House knows, extensive reconnaissance flights have been carried out over Germany on three successive nights during the last week by units of the Bomber Command. More than 10,000,000 copies of Notes to the German people have been distributed over a wide area of Northern and Western Germany, including the Ruhr. Although on each occasion the enemy defences were set fully in motion, no contact was secured by enemy fighters and all our aircraft returned safely. The activity of the Fighter and Coastal Commands, if less conspicuous, has been no less intense. From the early stages of the emergency all squadrons of the Fighter Command have been at their war stations and in a state of instant readiness. The Coastal Command has also been busily engaged in extensive reconnaissance over the surrounding seas in order to locate and destroy enemy submarines.
I now wish to say something of the organisation of the Home Defence Services which is being rapidly completed. The Regional organisation is functioning well. There is still some shortage of whole-time personnel but this is chiefly now to be found in country districts. The enforcement of the blackout is proceeding satisfactorily. With the help of the Air Force reconnaissance every night it has been possible to discover lights irregularly showing and action is at once taken to deal with the offenders.
The Government decided last Thursday that the plans for evacuation, mainly in respect of school children, young children and their mothers, should be put into operation. Evacuation started on Friday morning; in a number of towns it was completed by Saturday; in London, where the problem is exceptionally large, it was

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completed by Monday. The operation has now been substantially completed and has covered not only those towns for which plans had been worked out beforehand, but also a number of other vulnerable areas. So far approximately 1,475,000 children and mothers have been evacuated in the country as a whole. The arrangements for evacuation and transport were carried out without a hitch, and those responsible for reception in the receiving areas have displayed remarkable enterprise, efficiency and good will. The process of assimilating this large increase of population in the receiving areas take time and calls for tolerance and mutual understanding. Schools are to be reopened in the receiving areas as quickly as possible, and both public authorities and voluntary effort will be busily occupied with measures for the welfare of the children and for the assistance of the householders who are so generously providing homes for the mothers and children.
Over 200,000 hospital beds are to-day ready for air-raid casualties. Of these 56,500 are in the London Region, 15,500 inside the county and 41,000 outside the county. The beds in any region would, of course, be available to meet the needs of any other hard-pressed area. Over 11,000 trained nurses, 4,000 assistant nurses and over 50,000 auxiliary nurses, have joined the Civil Nursing Reserve for service in hospitals and first-aid posts; but more of both trained nurses and auxiliaries are needed, especially women who can give whole-time service in any part of the country. Nearly 2,500 doctors have accepted enrolment in the Emergency Medical Service, and acceptances are being received daily. The Auxiliary Fire Service was mobilised quickly and, on the whole, smoothly, and, in the main, the available fire fighting units are being kept permanently manned and ready for action. In London, for instance, there are over 1,800 fire pumps ready for action, as against about 125 in peace time.
I hope that the statement I have made on behalf of His Majesty's Government will show the House and the country that our war effort in its many aspects is rapidly gaining momentum. It has behind it the full weight of all the people of this country who are united in their conviction that no nation ever went to
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war in a higher cause. We are greatly heartened by the knowledge that, in the struggle for the defence of liberty and free institutions and the preservation of all that makes life worth living, we can count on the support of the oversea members of the British Commonwealth. Of their own free will and under no form of compulsion, save the moral compelling force of right and justice, these self-governing nations have declared their intention of co-operating in a cause which is no less precious to them than it is to the people of the homeland.
3.19 p.m.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, the House will desire me first of all to thank the noble Earl for the statement that he has made. We recognise the difficulties that the Government have had in making this statement, and that it must of necessity be confined to general things, rather than to the specific. I merely wish to say that the question I put to-day is one that I shall have frequently to put as the weeks go by, and it occurs to me that if the House does meet for one or two days each week it would be advisable that the question should be asked on the day the House may meet rather than on the day it may decide to adjourn, so that any necessary business connected with it may be brought up and transacted. I should also like to say that, in our judgment, these statements after to-day ought to be open to discussion—that is to say, we may feel we should like to comment on certain aspects of what has been said.
I make a final plea that, as far as His Majesty's Government find it possible, the fullest information should be given to the public. The public have behaved extraordinarily well. They are quite as capable of bearing any disappointment as are the members of His Majesty's Government, and it is fair to them, for their attitude and their bearing, that we should give them whatever information we possibly can. I do not wish to complain because I know how difficult the position is at the moment; but it is undoubtedly true that we can get more information from America than we can get here. That is something we ought not to continue to let happen. I do not know why it has not been possible, up to now, to say more about the episode on the Kiel Canal. In my judgment, so far as I have information, it is not information

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that the country should be ashamed to hear, and I give that as an illustration of the need, as far as it is usefully possible, for the maximum amount of information to be given.
3.22 p.m.
VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOOD: My Lords, there is only one small question I should like to put to the Government. I am afraid I have not given notice, but they can probably answer directly. The noble Earl spoke about the dissemination of a great number of leaflets in Germany. If I may be permitted, I would tender my congratulations on the enterprise and imagination which dictated that move; but I have not been able to find in the Press any account of what was in these leaflets. It may be I have missed it, but, if not, I should like to know why it was not published, because it seems to me a good thing that we should know exactly what was said to the Germans. I may be wrong, but I put the question as several people have put it to me.
3.23 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, in regard to the last question by the noble Viscount, we are not certain on the Front Bench whether this leaflet has appeared in the papers or not, but I shall certainly make inquiries and find out about it. No doubt my noble friend the Minister of Information will deal with the matter.
LORD SNELL: Could you not supply us with a copy?
EARL STANHOPE: I have not got one on me. I cannot conceive why it should not have been published. I understand it has been, but I shall look into the matter and proper action will be taken. As regards the question put to me by the noble Lord, the Leader of the Opposition, I shall convey to the Prime Minister what he has said. I am certain my right honourable friend is prepared to tell the public as much as possible, but of course we must bear in mind that statements made here have a far wider field. Although at present we have nothing we are not prepared to say to the enemy which would not be more disconcerting to him than to us, we have to keep these matters in mind. As regards more secret information—for instance, such things as casualties to German U-boats and so on—there are sometimes reasons why we
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should not claim successes, and perhaps the effect of that in Germany is all the greater.
THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY: My Lords, with regard to the particular matter mentioned by Lord Cecil, the fact is that a message from the Prime Minister to the German nation was published in the Press, but it was not stated whether that was the actual leaflet that was used by the Air Force.
VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOOD: That was stated to be a broadcast by the Prime Minister, but I dare say it is the same thing.

WAR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY.
3.25 p.m.
VISCOUNT SAMUEL: My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Earl a question of which I have given him private notice. As the subject is one that has caused a great deal of public concern, perhaps I may be allowed in a few sentences to explain the reason why this question is put. Last Friday, which was the day on which the first series of Emergency Bills was introduced into this House, I mentioned that one omission from those Bills was noticeable. I asked the noble Earl whether, next day or at some early date, it was the intention of the Government to submit to Parliament a Bill dealing with insurance for war damage to property. The noble Earl replied:
"I am not quite sure whether such a Bill is to be presented in the course of the next few days, but I know that a Bill dealing with the matter is being prepared, but how far it goes I am not fully informed."
Since then nearly a week has elapsed, a large number of Bills have been introduced, and it is proposed to adjourn to-day for nearly another week. Therefore I should like to repeat the question which I then asked.
Perhaps your Lordships would allow me to draw attention to a statement made on behalf of the Government in another place by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as long ago as January 31 last. He then, with the leave of the House, stated the conclusions reached by the Government on the subject of compensation from public funds in respect of loss or injury caused to persons or property in this country arising from enemy action. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then laid

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down the general principle which he stated the Government thought should applied—namely, that such loss or injury ought not to be treated as merely the concern of those who directly suffer it, but must be regarded as falling upon the community as a whole, and consequently as constituting a proper subject for compensation from public funds. He proceeded:
"In other words the loss ought not to be left to lie where it happens to fall, for the risk is one which affects us all, and the particular person or particular property which is struck is the casual victim of a general peril which the State is engaged in doing its utmost to resist and counteract."
Then the right honourable gentleman said that, so far as individuals were concerned, the Government were taking measures to provide proper compensation, but with regard to property, he stated that the question presented many grave complications, and that there were obstacles to the introduction of an insurance scheme, since it could not be known beforehand to what vast extent it was possible the losses might reach. He went on to say:
"The Government, therefore, cannot contemplate a scheme which would commit the community to so vague and indeterminate a liability. That does not mean in the least that individual properties which suffer ought to be left to bear the loss unaided."
Then he proceeded:
"When the extent of the damage to property in private ownership is known, such contribution will be made from public funds as the circumstances make possible, in accordance with a scale which would, at any rate, pay in full up to a certain limit of loss and thereafter would be graded."
He pointed out that compensation could only be paid at the end of the conflict. That was seven months ago, and very many individuals and important interests throughout the country are eager to learn what in fact it is proposed to do.
A number of mutual insurance funds have been founded, but the public in general is awaiting the Government scheme before deciding what steps should be taken. These mutual insurance schemes may or may not be in a position to provide substantial assistance. It is, of course, quite right that priority should be given to death or injury to a person, but that has now been dealt with in the Bills which have been passed by Parliament in the last few days. The question of damage to property, however, has still
1026
not been treated. I therefore beg to ask the noble Earl who leads the House when Parliament may expect to receive the promised legislation for providing compensation from the public funds so far as practicable for damage to buildings or other property arising out of our state of war. I should mention that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the Ministerial statement to which I referred, said that legislation would be necessary, and that it ought to be introduced as soon as possible.
3.32 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I must apologise to your Lordships because I am afraid I was incorrect in stating to the House last Friday that a Bill was in course of preparation dealing with this subject. I had in mind a number of Bills dealing with various aspects of compensation, such as the replacement of buildings that were essential to the nation, and also of stocks of goods; but the policy which the Government have undertaken to put into force is a scheme which was announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in another place and to which the noble Viscount has just referred. The Chancellor of the Exchequer pointed out, as the noble Viscount told the House, that loss due to enemy action ought not to be treated as merely the concern of those who directly suffered, but must be regarded as falling upon the community as a whole, and consequently as constituting a proper subject for compensation from public funds. The question then arose as to the method by which such compensation was to be provided. Normal forms of risk to property are generally the subject of insurance, but in the case of war damage to property the insurance companies had to decline to insure because, owing to the impossibility of estimating the damage that might be caused in war, there was no possible basis for an actuarial calculation of the risk. The same considerations made it impossible for the Government to offer an insurance scheme.
As the noble Viscount will, I am sure, realise, insurance implies premium and there is, of course, no possible actuarial information to fix what that premium should be. If indiscriminate air attacks take place damage may be very considerable indeed, whereas if bombing is confined solely to military objectives, the damage may be comparatively small.

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That matter, unfortunately, is not in our hands. Your Lordships will realise something of the extent of the problem when I say that an estimate, which can only be an approximate estimate, of the value of the property which is assured for fire purposes amounts to no less than £10,000,000,000. The Government felt that to undertake the responsibility for making good damage which might occur under those very problematical conditions was one which put such a vague and indeterminate cost on the State that they really could not under those conditions accept it. They therefore proposed that when the extent of damage to property was known, they would make the largest contribution towards meeting the loss caused thereby that was compatible with the financial circumstances of the country after the war, which will of course depend on how long the war lasts and how much it costs this country to win it. Whatever contribution was then found possible would be paid according to a scale which would at any rate pay in full up to a certain limit of loss and would thereafter be graded. That is the scheme which the Government have undertaken to put into force.
It should, however, be added that a number of suggestions have been made to the Government from time to time that the Government's scheme should be replaced or supplemented by a scheme under which contributions would be collected from property owners and the proceeds distributed, as soon as losses occurred, to the owners of damaged properties. In view of these suggestions the Government appointed a Conference under Lord Weir's chairmanship, to advise them whether any such scheme was practicable, it being understood that no scheme would be acceptable which would promise to provide an unlimited amount out of public funds for compensation. Lord Weir's Conference has not yet completed its inquiry and the Government are not in a position to say what is likely to be the nature of the Report. The difficulties are, of course, very great indeed. In view of the outbreak of war the Government have proceeded with the arrangements necessary to put in force the scheme announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in January last. I can say that arrangements of this kind are
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obviously necessary irrespective of any recommendations that may be made by Lord Weir's Conference.
The first essential under those arrangements is that the extent of whatever damage is suffered should be recorded and assessed as soon as possible after it has occurred. For this purpose arrangements have been made for the receipt of claims at the local offices of the district valuers of the Inland Revenue. A notice was issued to the Press yesterday explaining that the necessary forms of claim will shortly be obtainable at local town halls and at the offices of local authorities and district valuers by any who may be unfortunate enough to suffer this kind of loss. Your Lordships will realise that that does not require legislation, and therefore the Government at this moment are not proposing to introduce a Bill. I am afraid that is all the information I can give your Lordships at present.
VISCOUNT SAMUEL: My Lords, I desire to thank the noble Earl for his very full reply, and to express a hope, which I am sure will be shared by your Lordships, that it will not be long before the Weir Conference arrives at its conclusion and definite action can be taken.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move that Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's sitting.
Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's sitting.—(Earl Stanhope.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

EXCHEQUER AND AUDIT DEPARTMENTS (TEMPORARY PROVISIONS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; and read 1a.
Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended:
3.39 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. Under the present procedure,

1029
laid down by the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act, 1866, for making funds available to meet charges on the Exchequer, the Treasury has to make a requisition to the Comptroller and Auditor-General for "credits" of the corresponding amounts, and the Bank of England cannot honour the Treasury's drafts on the Exchequer until the Comptroller and Auditor-General has informed the Bank that he has granted such "credits." The object of this procedure is to give the Comptroller and Auditor-General opportunity to satisfy himself, before any payment is made from the Exchequer, that, firstly, in the case of Consolidated Fund Services, the payment is supported by statutory authority; and, secondly, in the case of Supply Services, the payment is within the total of the Ways and Means granted to the Treasury by Parliament. This is contained in Clause 1.
Under the conditions of modern warfare, and particularly if either the Treasury or the Exchequer and Audit Department are evacuated, as possibly might have to be done, it is quite possible that communication with the Comptroller and Auditor-General might be seriously delayed or interrupted, and the observance of the normal procedure of granting "credits" might involve serious dislocation of the financial machinery of the Government. The Treasury and the Comptroller and Auditor-General are therefore agreed that it is very desirable that the normal procedure should be dispensed with temporarily as soon as conditions shall require. Clause 1 of the Bill carries this proposal into effect, but it will be noted that under Clause 3 the Act does not come into force until such date as His Majesty may appoint by Order in Council declaring that the circumstances render it expedient in the public interest to put it into force. The object of this delay is to assure Parliament that the Treasury will not avail itself of the new procedure possible under the Bill unless war conditions make it absolutely necessary.
The present procedure is, of course, of very long standing, and questions may be asked whether it does not derogate seriously from the effectiveness of the controls which have been imposed on the Executive in the interests of Parliament. The answer is that this particular control by the Comptroller and Auditor-
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General has less practical significance than any others. The primary safeguard on which Parliament relies is the Comptroller and Auditor-General's audit of payments after they have been made, and this audit will be in no way affected by the present proposals. I may point out that under Clause 3 of the Bill the House of Commons has the right to bring the emergency arrangements to an end by Resolution whenever it so desires. I hope that is a sufficient explanation under the circumstances of this very technical Bill, and I beg to move that it be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
VISCOUNT SAMUEL: May I ask whether the noble Lord is able to say whether this procedure was adopted in the last War?
LORD TEMPLEMORE: I am afraid I cannot say.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

GOVERNMENT AND OTHER STOCKS (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; and read 1a.
Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended:
3.43 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. The principal object of this Bill is to make certain provisions regarding inscribed stock consequent on the removal from London of the stock transfer department of the Bank of England and other stock registers which I am informed took place some days ago. That removal will make impracticable the continuance of the method of transfer in the books which calls for the personal attendance of the transferor or of someone authorised by him and known to the Registrar. The Bill, therefore, provides that, during the continuance of the emergency, any holding of stock that is at present transferable in the books or register kept in Great Britain, shall not be transferable by that method but, instead, shall be transferable by instrument

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in writing. Under Clause 2 it is provided that since war conditions may make it impossible to pay coupons within the statutory period because of the interruption of communications, the period for payment may be extended.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

IMPORT DUTIES (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons endorsed with the Certificate from the Speaker that the Bill is a Money Bill within the meaning of the Parliament Act, 1911; and read 1a.
Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended:
3.44 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. The purpose of the Bill is to suspend the statutory functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee and to make temporary provision for the exercise of powers which are exercisable at present on the recommendation of the Committee without any such recommendation. The main effect of the Bill is to give the Treasury power, without any recommendation from the Import Duties Advisory Committee, to increase, decrease or remove duties chargeable under the Import Duties Act, 1932, to deal with drawbacks of duty under that Act, and to issue licences in respect of the duty-free importation of certain articles.
The Import Duties Act both imposed a general ad valorem duty of 10 per cent. on all goods not otherwise chargeable with Customs Duty and not specifically exempted from the operation of the Import Duties Act, and gave to the Treasury—after consultation with the appropriate Departments, the Board of Trade, the Ministry of Agriculture and so forth—power to impose by Order additional duties over and above the general ad valorem duty on the recommendation of the Import Duties Advisory Committee. Under Section 19 of that Act, any
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Order made by the Treasury could be revoked or varied subject to certain qualifications, of which the chief was that an Order could not be varied so as to increase the rate of additional duty above the rate specified in a recommendation made by the Import Duties Advisory Committee unless a further recommendation was received from the Committee.
From the Parliamentary point of view, the safeguards were, firstly, investigation by an independent arbitral tribunal in the form of the Advisory Committee, and secondly, the negative right of the House of Commons to reject any Order made by the Treasury, coupled with the positive right to approve any Order imposing a new or additional duty of Customs. The proposals embodied in the present Bill are intended to maintain the system set up under the Import Duties Act, subject to the temporary suspension of the functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee. Under the Bill, the Treasury will be able to vary duties either upwards or downwards, without any recommendation from the Committee, and, therefore, without the detailed scrutiny which the Committee was set up to conduct. For the rest, however, all existing safeguards will remain. For example, the obligation on the Treasury to consult the appropriate Department before making an Order is left untouched, as is the requirement that all Orders made by the Treasury must be presented to the House of Commons, which will retain both its negative right to annul any Order and its positive right to approve all Orders imposing new or additional duties of Customs. The Bill is a certified Money Bill under the Parliament Act. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

INCOME TAX PROCEDURE (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; and read 1a.
Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended:
3.48 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. The Bill is a matter of machinery and of one operative clause. Its effect is to allow modification during the war period: and to such extent as conditions may render necessary, of the strictly territorial basis of function which obtains in Great Britain under the existing Income Tax Act. At present if the functions are not performed the machinery comes to a standstill and, under the existing law, there is no one who can claim to perform them within each territorial area as substitute for the existing authorities. Pivotal in the organisation are the General Commissioners of Income Tax for each division in the county and it will be clear that the ceasing to function even for a temporary period of any appreciable duration of such a body of Commissioners must be a very serious matter. Also it has to be recognised that such a contingency is not too remote under modern war conditions to be guarded against. A further need is that a tribunal shall be available for taxpayers who, under stress of personal or business circumstances, may have migrated.
The method proposed to deal with the matter is that of substitution. Under the existing law it is possible for the taxpayer under Schedules D or E, and in certain cases under Schedule B, to exercise the option to have his appeal heard by the Special Commissioners instead of by the local Commissioners for his division. Also, he may elect, under Schedule D, to be assessed by the Special Commissioners. Both of these options are subject to a time limit. The Bill proposes that the Special Commissioners will be available, as possible substitutes, freely, in the whole field, whereas now they can only be used after the exercise of an option. Another substitution which the Bill envisages is to take the General Commisisoners, acting for another division, as substitutes for the Commissioners acting for a division, who, in the circumstances anticipated, might not be able to act. Probably the Special Commissioners would be more frequently used, as they are a mobile tribunal and therefore no doubt could do the work more conveniently. The Bill proposes both lines of substitution and, whichever is adopted,
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the two governing factors must be the forwarding of the King's business combined with consideration of the taxpayers' convenience.
The other functions which the Bill considers are those of the assessor and of the Additional Commissioners. They have certain statutory duties to perform and the Bill provides that each Inspector of Taxes shall be available in an emergency as a supplementary, or, in the last resort, as an alternative resource for carrying on these duties. I think the only other point I need mention is that in Clause 2 it is laid down that the Bill does not apply to Northern Ireland. The reason for this is that the scheme of General and Additional Commissioners does not extend to Northern Ireland; in that area the assessing functions are by law placed in the hands of surveyors and the Special Commissioners, and the Special Commissioners are the appeal authority. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

SHERIFF COURTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; and read 1a.
Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended:
3.53 p.m.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (THE MARQUESS OF ZETLAND): My Lords, I can explain the purpose of this Bill in a very few sentences. In the Scottish judicial hierarchy there are three categories of persons known respectively as Sheriffs, Sheriffs-substitute and interim Sheriffs-substitute. Under the law as it at present stands an interim Sheriff-substitute can only be appointed in the place of a Sheriff-substitute if the latter has been granted leave of absence on the ground of ill health. It is very desirable, even in times of peace, that this restriction should be removed. It may well happen, for example, in times of peace that a

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Sheriff-substitute is acting for a Sheriff, in which circumstances it may very well be desirable that the interim Sheriff-substitute should be appointed in the place of the Sheriff-substitute himself. But it becomes still more desirable in times of war, for the Sheriff-substitute may be engaged upon military duties or he may be undertaking work of national importance, and in those circumstances it is clearly desirable that it should be possible to appoint the interim Sheriff-substitute to act in his place. The single operative clause of this Bill has the effect of removing the existing restriction and so bringing about the state of affairs which we desire to see. I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Marquess of Zetland.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

LONDON WORKMEN'S TICKETS.
3.55 p.m.
LORD MARLEY LORD MARLEY asked His Majesty's Government whether they will make arrangements with the London Passenger Transport Board whereby workmen's tickets will be available at a later hour, in cases when persons are prevented, owing to A.R.P. warnings, from being at their suburban stations by the hour up to which workmen's tickets are normally available.
The noble Lord said: My Lords, I ventured to put down a Question on the Order Paper which deals with the conditions concerning many tens of thousands of people who come into London to work every day, both men and women. They are accustomed, provided they arrive at the barrier of their suburban station by a certain time, to receive railway return tickets at a reduced rate. Yesterday, owing to the provision of air-raid precautions, tens of thousands of people were not able to reach the barrier by the time named and accordingly they were compelled to pay the ordinary return fare, amounting to a very considerable sum for people of very low income. As it is very important that large numbers of people should not feel that they have
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suffered an injustice due to no fault of their own, during the emergencies under which we are living, I ventured to put down the Question which stands in my name and I hope the Government will be able to take steps to secure a revision of the present rather hard regulations.
THE EARL OF LUCAN: My Lords, I am very glad that my noble friend has asked that question. I am also very glad to tell him that my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport is in communication with the Railway Executive Committee, who are now the responsible body in this matter, and I shall be very happy to let the noble Lord know the outcome as soon as possible. I may say that I understand that the Railway Executive Committee had this matter before them yesterday and that they are going to make a decision to-day. I shall be very glad to let the noble Lord know what the result is.
LORD MARLEY: I am very much obliged to the noble Earl for his sympathetic answer.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

LIABILITY FOR WAR DAMAGE (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons, agreed to, with Amendments: the said Amendments considered and agreed to, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
POLICE AND FIREMEN (WAR SERVICE) BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons, agreed to, with Amendments: the said Amendments considered and agreed to, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal Assent was given to the following Bills:

Import Duties (Emergency Provisions),

Sheriff Courts (Scotland),

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Income Tax Procedure (Emergency Provisions),

Government and Other Stocks (Emergency Provisions),

Exchequer and Audit Departments (Temporary Provisions),

Liability for War Damage (Miscellaneous Provisions),

Police and Firemen (War Service).

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn till Wednesday next at three o'clock.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at a quarter past five o'clock.