Lords Sitting of 1 September 1939

Preamble
Summoned by the Lord Chancellor, in pursuance of the Resolution of August 24, the House met at six of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

THE INTERNATIONAL SITUATION.
6.6 p.m.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether they have any statement to make about foreign affairs.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (VISCOUNT HALIFAX): My Lords, the conditions under which your Lordships meet are very grave. I do not know whether your Lordships have yet had opportunity—I rather fear you may not—to study the documents that have been laid this afternoon and that will be published in the Press to-morrow, but when you do you will, I think, see quite clearly how the negotiations leading up to the present situation have developed. As was stated the other day in the reply of the President of Poland to the President of the United States, the Polish Government have been prepared to enter into direct negotiations with the German Government and His Majesty's Government were authorised by the Polish Government to state in their communication to the German Government on August 28 that the Polish Government were willing to enter into such discussions on the basis that had been proposed by His Majesty's Government. Again, last night, in Berlin the Polish Ambassador sought an interview with the German Foreign Minister, Herr Von Ribbentrop, and repeated the assurance of the Polish Government's readiness to negotiate the questions in dispute with the German Government on a free and equal basis. I understand that immediately after that interview he endeavoured to communicate with his Government but was unable to do so, because communications between Berlin and Warsaw had been cut, and at dawn this morning—so His Majesty's Ambassador at Warsaw has reported—German troops advanced over the frontier. It is perhaps
914
worth mentioning that we have received an official and most categorical denial from the Polish Government that the Polish forces committed any act of aggression last night as reported by the German News Agency.
The German broadcast of the sixteen points last night contained the sentence "In these circumstances the Reich Government considers its proposals rejected," and it is therefore worth while examining what those circumstances were. The proposals of the German Government had in fact never been communicated by Germany to Poland at all. His Majesty's Ambassador saw Herr von Ribbentrop on Wednesday evening—the night before last—and urged that when the German proposals were ready Herr von Ribbentrop should invite the Polish Ambassador to call and should hand him the proposals for transmission to his Government. Thereupon, as the Ambassador reported, in his own words, "in the most violent terms Herr von Ribbentrop said that he would never ask the Polish Ambassador to visit him," but he hinted that if the Polish Ambassador asked him for an interivew it might be different. This was on Wednesday night, which according to the German statement of last night is now claimed to be the final date after which no negotiations with Poland were acceptable. The inference would seem plain, and the inference would seem to be that Germany claims to treat Poland as in the wrong because, although the Polish Ambassador was in touch with the German Foreign Minister last night, Thursday, Poland had not by Wednesday night entered upon a discussion with Germany of a set of proposals of which the Polish Government had never heard.
Not only that, but the text of these proposals had never been communicated to His Majesty's Government before we heard them on the German wireless last night. When our Ambassador on Wednesday night, August 30, or in the early hours of Thursday morning, saw Herr von Ribbentrop the latter, as our Ambassador telegraphs, produced a lengthy document which he read out in German aloud, at top speed, and our Ambassador naturally supposed that after this reading he would be furnished with a copy of the document, but when he asked Herr von Ribbentrop for the text

915
of these proposals the reply he received was that it was now too late, as the Polish representative had not arrived in Berlin by midnight. Consequently, until the German broadcast last night our Ambassador was only able to furnish us with an outline from recollection of Herr von Ribbentrop's reading.
I think from those facts—and I have tried to state them as shortly and as plainly as I can—it is clear that the true facts are not as stated in the German wireless, but that the text of the German proposals was not, before it was broadcast, communicated either to Poland or to Great Britain, and noble Lords and those outside can draw their own deductions. The rulers of Germany appear to have conceived of a negotiation between themselves and Poland as nothing more than the summoning of a Polish plenipotentiary to Berlin at twenty-four hours' notice, to discuss terms not previously communicated to them, and I am bound to say that such a position, with the examples of the Austrian Chancellor and the President of Czecho-Slovakia before them, was not one which I think the Polish Government could readily be expected to accept. And thus, in those circumstances, when the German Chancellor issued this morning a statement that "the Polish State has refused the peaceful settlement of relations which I desire," my Lords, of those issues and of those doings the world will judge. The language used by the German representatives, the documents, and above all I think the action of the German Government, speak for themselves.
As regards the actual terms concerning Danzig and the Corridor, now published, it would naturally have been primarily for the Polish Government to express their opinion upon their full significance. His Majesty's Government can only say this, that in their view, had the German Government been sincerely anxious to negotiate a settlement they would surely have submitted these terms to the Polish Government, giving them time to consider whether or not they could fairly be held to infringe Poland's vital interests, which the German Government, in their communication to the British Government of August 29, had declared their intention of respecting.
916
I saw the Polish Ambassador at 10.30 this morning. He told me that according to his information German troops had crossed the Polish frontier at four points, and that several Polish towns had already been bombed. I immediately asked the Counsellor of the German Embassy, the Chargé d'Affaires, to see me. I told him that His Majesty's Government had received these reports, and I inquired of him whether he had himself received any information or had any communication from his own Government for His Majesty's Government. The Counsellor replied that he had neither received information nor instructions to make any communication, and I told him that we were, I feared, faced with a situation of which I could not exaggerate the gravity.
I added to him that the Cabinet was meeting this morning, and that any further communication we had to make in the light of these events would be addressed to his Government. His Majesty's Ambassador in Berlin has now been instructed to make the following communication to the German Government:
"On the instructions of His Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs I have the honour to make the following communication. Early this morning the German Chancellor issued a proclamation to the German Army which indicated clearly that he was about to attack Poland. Information which has reached His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom, and the French Government, indicates that German troops have crossed the Polish frontier, and that attacks upon Polish towns are proceeding.
"in these circumstances, it appears to the Governments of the United Kingdom and France that by their action the German Government have created conditions (namely, an aggressive act of force against Poland threatening the independence of Poland) which call for the implementation by the Governments of the United Kingdom and France of the undertaking to Poland to come to her assistance.
"I am accordingly to inform your Excellency that unless the German Government are prepared immediately to give His Majesty's Government satisfactory assurances that the German Government have suspended all aggressive action against Poland and promptly to withdraw their forces from Polish territory, His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom will, without hesitation, fulfil their obligations to Poland."
It is thus that we reach the end of all the efforts and the hopes of these last weeks, and I do not suppose that any

917
man has ever laboured more devotedly for peace than my right honourable friend the Prime Minister; and no stronger proof, in my judgment, could be afforded of the fact that the present situation has been forced upon this country, than that it should be to him of all men that it falls to lead our country, if so it be, into war. Any one who reads these documents and who knows the instinctive desire for understanding common, I believe, both to the German and the British peoples, can measure the tragedy that is involved by the totally unjustifiable action taken this morning by the German leaders, and first and foremost by the German Chancellor, on whom in history surely an overwhelming responsibility will lie.
So far as His Majesty's Government are concerned, I cannot think of anything that we have left undone or that, looking back, one would wished to have done differently. It has been a source of great satisfaction to us to know that Signor Mussolini also was using all his influence in an endeavour, up to the last moment, to save the peace. Our conscience, I think we can say, is clear. As will be seen from the documents, when your Lordships have time to study them, we have made it absolutely plain to the German Government what the consequences of such action as they have taken must be; and there is indeed only one thing that I can think of that we might have done to save the peace, but which I think would have been an action quite impossible for this country, with any regard to its principles or to its honour, to take, and that one thing would have been to have pressed the Polish Government to submit to methods of intimidation, on which basis alone were the German Government apparently willing to discuss their proposals. In other words, that once again Europe should agree to be held to ransom by the naked menace of force.
If one thing has been made clear it is, I am afraid, that the German Government were not prepared to lay force aside. This problem of Danzig and the Corridor has been present for twenty years. When it suited Germany in 1934 to be on good terms with Poland, the Danzig question faded out, and only during the last five months has it been deliberately aggravated and inflamed. And although it only took the German Government a few
918
weeks to rouse feeling to fever pitch, it was, to say the least, unreasonable to make the presence of a Polish plenipotentiary within twenty-four hours a condition of any negotiation, and to expect those negotiations to be conducted on the basis of proposals which the Polish Government had not at that time had any opportunity of seeing. It is surely partly in the light of that action that the proposals themselves fall to be judged. Certainly we must all have learnt that so long as engagements are to be freely broken without notice, and so long as force is to be the arbiter of international disputes, we were bound to look forward to a new crisis every six months, and to see one country after another made the object of this menace of force. And that, I think, is the answer to those who, here or elsewhere, might ask why this country should interest itself in a dispute which did not apparently or immediately concern it. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister answered this in other words when he said in another place a few days ago that, if war came, we should not be fighting merely on the issue raised by the position of some far off city in a foreign land, but for principles on which all international life finally depends, and apart from which, I think, no international life is tolerable.
6.28 p.m.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, your Lordships' House will have heard with strained attention the statement of such tragic significance that the noble Viscount has just made to you. The circumstances under which we are meeting would appear to require from every member of your Lordships' House and every responsible person in the community the very greatest restraint in what they say. We, representing the Labour Party, have, as you know, from time to time very seriously criticised the foreign policy adopted by His Majesty's Government, and we do not to-day withdraw any word of that criticism. It is not necessary to repeat it, but I think I may be allowed, without doing outrage to the position that we have taken, to express at the beginning a word of sympathy for the members of His Majesty's Government who have had to face in these last days circumstances of such tremendous importance. It is very difficult to see what can now be said. The dreadful die appears to have been

919
cast. The aggressor has chosen to try to settle by force a question that can only be settled right if it is settled by reason and by conference. Because the Polish nation were unwilling at an hour's notice to rush to Berlin and to grovel and capitulate, Polish cities are apparently being bombed and innocent people are being injured and perhaps killed. It is characteristic of the German Government that in entering upon this contest its Leader boasts much as a pugilist boasts before he has fought his battle. It may be that the second German war will be no more successful than the first. It might have been well if Herr Hitler had remembered the ancient advice:
"Let not him that girdeth on his harness boast himself as he that putteth it off."
We shall not imitate that temper either in this place or elsewhere. With no vain boasting, with no illusions, but also with no misgiving, our country, if need be, will try to uphold the right of free men to remain free. Less than that it does not seem to us we could do.
We have in this crisis, I hope it will be agreed, given to His Majesty's Government such support as the information at our disposal led us to believe was right. It gives us therefore the right on this occasion to ask that as far as is possible salient information shall be made available to us. So far as I have understood the noble Viscount, it would appear that an ultimatum has been sent. It is a dreadful thing for a man like myself, who all his life has worked for peace, to have to appear to counsel belligerent action, but my Party believe that we cannot allow the Polish people to bear the whole brunt of this assault. If hostilities begin, one thing is clear, they will have, here as elsewhere, tremendous economic and social reactions. We shall have our own opinion when the time comes as to how that situation should be dealt with, but our common task now appears to be to try to see that organised, deliberately planned, and systematic aggression does not pay. It may be necessary for us to call upon the established qualities of our race—constancy, resolution, endurance—and I think we can face this issue in the quiet confidence that wrong cannot in the long run triumph on the earth.
6.35 p.m.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, in following for a very few moments the noble Lord who has just spoken, and following him with complete agreement in everything he has said, I should like also to express my sense of the ordeal through which His Majesty's Ministers have been passing during these last few days and weeks in connection with this intensely difficult international crisis. The noble Viscount opposite has once more, as he has before, spoken the mind of the whole country. He made it abundantly clear that all through it has never been the intention of the German Government to settle this question by free discussion and frank negotiation. To draw up, as they did, an elaborate series of propositions which it is not worth anybody's while now to examine, and to throw them on the table with the intimation to Poland that the Polish representative must come to Berlin, nominally to discuss them but obviously only to accept them—that cannot in any sense be said to partake of the nature of negotiation or discussion.
If negotiation had been desired, it would have been easy, as the noble Viscount has pointed out, to communicate these propositions to the Polish Government in good time. They might, and ought, also to have been handed to the French Ambassador and to our Ambassador with full time to examine them. That these last did not receive them is no doubt part of the thesis which the German Government have held all through, that the doings of any country are only the concern of its immediate neighbours—in this case of themselves—although it is not a principle on which in other cases they have acted. The German Government have taken as their device the terrible Roman saying, "Let them hate us so long as they fear us." That being their motto, they are obviously unwilling to enter into serious discussion with any Power that they think they can induce to fear them. Now, as the noble Viscount has told us, His Majesty's Government have presented to the German Government a document which I think it would be not quite accurate to describe as an ultimatum, but which can be described as a frank statement of our moral and political duty and of our determination to follow the path that

921
circumstances require. All that we can say is that we stand by the right, and we believe that the right will prevail.
6.42 p.m.
THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY: My Lords, words cannot describe, it is almost impossible for imagination to realise, the gravity of this fateful hour. Let me say at the outset that our thoughts must turn to the King, called at the very beginning of his reign, like his father, a reign begun with such high promise, to be the head of the nation at what may be a time of bitter trial. I am sure that from this House and from the whole country there will arise the resolute loyalty by which he will be fortified and sustained. Our sympathies go out in the fullest measure to the Prime Minister and to the noble Viscount, who has spoken in terms so grave and solemn this afternoon, in that all their patience and long-continued endeavours to find a peaceful solution of these troubles have been frustrated. They have done their best, and their country is grateful to them for what they have done.
Perhaps you may expect that some words should be spoken by me from this place about the moral or even spiritual issues which seem to be involved in the struggle which, alas, seems to be impending. Our quarrel is not with all the specific aims and claims of Germany. Some of these we have constantly stated we regard as capable of reasonable discussion. Our quarrel is with the methods by which the ruler of Germany has sought to attain them. Such methods and the principles which lie behind them are obviously inconsistent with the very first principles upon which any civilised order among nations can be built. If these methods were to have free course, if any State were permitted to ride roughshod over obligations of treaty and assurance and to use force either to attack or threaten to attack the independence of the territory of another State merely in the interests of its own expansion or power, there would surely be an end to any security of justice or liberty among nations. That seems to me, as to all your Lordships, the supreme moral issue which is involved. It is one from which we in this country and our Allies, bound as we are by very special and solemn undertakings, cannot shrink. I think it
922
is of high importance, that at the very outset of what may be a long and painful struggle the primacy of this moral issue should be made plain, for it will enable us to enter upon that struggle with a good conscience.
I think I speak for your Lordships when I say that we have no thoughts of enmity towards the German people. We believe that many, perhaps most of them, are as opposed to war as we are, but they cannot speak their minds. They are not allowed to know the other side; they have been bewildered and misled by a long, elaborate and most unscrupulous propaganda. Our feelings towards them, surely, are rather of sympathy than of enmity. We are not contending for any particular form of government, deeply attached as we are to our own form of democracy. We are not contending for any direct interests of our own save those which we share with other nations, though indeed we must see that conceivably, if Herr Hitler's policy were to prevail, our own country and the commonwealth of nations might come within the ambit of his unbridled ambition. Surely, my Lords, what we are contending for is a clear and simple moral issue, and accepting a challenge which, if it is not met, would be fatal to civilisation itself.
Doubtless, we cannot dismiss from our minds what I called, I think once, in this House the torturing question as to whether even in order to defend civilisation it can be right to enter upon a war which, as is sometimes said, might destroy civilisation itself as we know it. But no man can foresee the character, the duration, the final results of this war, if it is to be war, and it may well be that these gloomy anticipations may prove to be unfounded; but in any case we are under an obligation of honour to Poland which we cannot ignore without inflicting a sense of shame upon ourselves and our children which would haunt us for the rest of our history. It is indeed hateful beyond words to think of having recourse to force when we all realise, as we must, the misery and the suffering that must be entailed. It would be wasting words to dwell upon such a theme, which lies deep in the hearts of all of us, but force has been thrust upon us, and unless we are to surrender this vital principle the only way by which such force can be resisted and the right be defended is counterforce,

923
for plainly Herr Hitler is incapable or at least most unwilling to listen to reason or persuasion, and it would almost be absurd to think that he, being what he is, was capable of being moved by the moral appeal of non-resistance.
In these circumstances what other course is before us? I cannot close without adding that if in the inscrutable will of Providence the world is to suffer again the scourge of war we ought to regard it as a judgment upon the nations of the world for their manifold neglect of the laws of His Kingdom, and it may be that we ourselves deserve some measure of that judgment. Therefore there is no place in the spirit with which we shall enter upon this struggle, if so it must be, for arrogance or self-righteousness, but rather for penitence. And yet, in this dark and confused world, it is given to man only to see some clear line of duty and to do his best to follow it. I shrink indeed from linking our broken lights and our fallible purposes with the Holy Name of God, yet I honestly believe that in this struggle, if it is forced upon us, we may humbly and trustfully commend our cause to God. Having done so, it is for each of us in his place to serve that cause with unstinted devotion.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
6.51 p.m.
THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (EARL STANHOPE): My Lords, there are a number of Bills which His Majesty's Government feel necessary should receive the Royal Assent to-night. They are being considered in another place now and they will no doubt come to us in due course; but, instead of your Lordships being asked to wait for each Bill as it arrives, I suggest that we should adjourn now till nine o'clock. Then I think that there will be enough business for us to take the first batch of those Bills through this House, if your Lordships so please. It will be my duty when the House resumes to move that the Standing Orders be suspended in order that those Bills should be carried through all their stages this evening and receive the Royal Assent before we adjourn. I beg to move that the House do now adjourn till nine o'clock.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
9 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move that Standing Order No. LIV be now read.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Standing Order—"That no Motion for making or dispensing with a Standing Order be made without notice"—read accordingly.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move that Standing Order No. XXXIX be now read.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Standing Order—"That no two stages of a Bill be taken on one day"—read accordingly.
CONSOLIDATED FUND APPROPRIATION (No. 2) BILL.
CURRENCY (DEFENCE) BILL.
PRIZE BILL.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA ACT (AMENDMENT) BILL.
COURTS (EMERGENCY POWERS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled Consolidated Fund Appropriation (No. 2) Bill, Currency (Defence) Bill, Prize Bill, Government of India Act (Amendment) Bill, Courts (Emergency Powers) Bill, should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord Chancellor ought forthwith to put the question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House shall think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.
Moved, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled the Consolidated Fund Appropriation (No. 2) Bill, Currency (Defence) Bill, Prize Bill, Government of India Act (Amendment) Bill, Courts (Emergency Powers) Bill, should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord Chancellor ought forthwith to put the question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House shall think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.—(Earl Stanhope.)
9.3 p.m.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, the times are unusual, and we realise that it is necessary for the Government to arm themselves and the nation with certain extraordinary powers. Therefore by this Motion the noble Earl the Leader of the House is asking us to pass—I suppose rapidly and as soon as possible—all the Bills of which the titles have been read out, which are important. Two of them fortunately have already passed your Lordships' House and ought to pass now without too much discussion. This matter has been considered by the Party for whom I have the honour to speak, and the Government did them the courtesy of passing the Bills to them in draft form, so that at any rate we were treated a little better than the British Ambassador was treated last Wednesday by Herr von Ribbentrop.
I have only to say on behalf of my noble friends that we are prepared to facilitate the passage of these Bills, as was done by our friends in another place, but we do want to make it perfectly clear that as soon as possible and for as long as possible Parliamentary control of legislation at this time should be maintained in as full force as possible. We agree to this, which many pundits would call, outrageous procedure only because of the times and circumstances, and no precedent can be looked upon as having been created for the future. I only want further to say, as my noble friend behind me indicated in his speech this afternoon, that we have to hold fast to the great ideals we stand for. One of those is Parliamentary control and the full meaning
926
of democracy in its highest development as reached in this country. With these remarks I beg leave to express our agreement with the Motion.
9.5 p.m.
VISCOUNT SAMUEL: My Lords, I am sure, that the whole House will unanimously agree to the Motion which has been moved, and to facilitate in any way in its power the passage of these necessary Emergency Bills, as the House was willing to do a few days ago when we passed with practically no discussion, the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act. I have had an opportunity of reading these Bills, and I would like to say now with regard to all of them that I think there is no special point which I desire to raise. I do, however, notice one omission in the Bills so far presented, and I would like to ask the Leader of the House a question—namely, whether to-morrow, or on some early day, it is the intention of the Government to submit to Parliament a Bill dealing with insurance for war damage to property. There is a great deal of public interest in this matter, and as such a Bill is not included in the first batch of emergency measures I would like to ask whether it will be forthcoming at an early date.
9.6 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, in reply, I am not quite sure whether such a Bill is to be presented in the course of the next few days, but I know that a Bill dealing with the matter is being prepared, but how far it goes I am not fully informed. May I say, so far as the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, are concerned, that this is not a precedent, because we do not make a practice of going into crises of this kind, as some other countries do. There is also this difference, that these Bills when they become law are always subject to revision by subsequent measures. Your Lordships and another place will have full powers to amend these matters as occasion demands, and make such changes as are found desirable, in the full practice of Parliamentary procedure, and in order to maintain the full liberties not only of Parliament but of this country as a whole.
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

CONSOLIDATED FUND APPROPRIA TION (No. 2).
Bill endorsed with the Certificate from the Speaker that it is a Money Bill within the meaning of the Parliament Act. 1911.
Read 1a and 2a; Committee negatived. Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

CURRENCY (DEFENCE) BILL.
Read 1a.
9.8 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a second time. This Bill deals with three separate financial measures which will become necessary immediately on the outbreak of war. The Bill does not come into force automatically, but will be put into operation by Order in Council, and it is intended to bring it into force immediately any war breaks out.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
LORD STRABOLGI: I do not want to delay matters, but my noble friend behind me asked me to watch these Bills, and I should have thought that some short explanation was called for here, in particular with regard to the provisions for loans by the Bank of England. This is partly legislation by reference, and it is not very easy to follow. But this raises a question of great importance from the point of view of my Party—namely, the future financing of the arrangements we may have to make in the months ahead of us, and we do not want to see the same policy adopted—we think with not altogether satisfactory results—as was adopted in the last national crisis. I make that caveat, so to speak, in advance, and I also bear in mind what the noble Earl, the Leader of the House, had to say about amending these Bills later. This Bill is perhaps the most important of the whole batch, if I may say so with great respect to the noble and learned Lord, the Lord Chancellor, who has a number of important Bills in his name.
9.12 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: The noble Lord has raised a very important point, and I shall be glad by the leave of the House to explain Clause 3, to which he
928
referred. Arrangements have been made for advances by the Bank of England but out of Government funds, firstly, to approved banks, in order to enable them to meet demands from their customers for currency; and secondly, to approved acceptors whose bills are normally discounted in the London market. These advances and the interest thereon will be a floating charge in favour of the bank ranking prior to all other floating charges on the assets of the borrower. It is not expected that any large amount of advances under the first head will be necessary, and such as are made will be repaid quite quickly. As regards advances under the second head acceptors will be required to repay whatever they collect on the bills, but the balance will not be repayable earlier than six months after the end of the emergency. The necessary funds for these advances will be provided by the Government out of any Vote of Credit. This arrangement is the same as that eventually made in the last war after an initial period during which the money was actually advanced by the Bank of England under a guarantee from the Treasury against loss. The latter method, by swelling the Bank of England's balance sheet, proved to have a decidedly inflationary effect and has been avoided on this occasion.
Subsection (1) legalises these floating charges in the case of loans certified by the Treasury to have been granted by the bank by arrangements with His Majesty's Government, and provides that Section 79 of the Companies Act, 1929, under which a charge created by a company registered in England must be registered with the Registrar of Companies to be valid against the liquidator and any creditor and Section 43 of the Bankruptcy Act, 1914, under which assignments are void against the trustee unless registered, and any other enactment in force relating to the registration of charges, shall not apply to these loans. With regard to subsection (2), under the previous subsection the loans are to be certified by the Treasury, and this subsection provides that a document purporting to be a certificate and to be signed by two Lords of the Treasury shall be taken to be such unless the contrary is proved.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

PRIZE BILL.
Read 1a.
9.14 p.m.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD MAUGHAM): My Lords, in moving that this Bill be read a second time, may I be allowed to state, quite shortly, the object of it? The subject is familiar to all who are acquainted with the ordinary law with reference to prize with regard to maritime vessels. It is a Bill to apply the law of prize to aircraft, and it also makes minor Amendments in the existing statutes relating to prize. I may just tell your Lordships for information that the matter dealt with in Clause 1 was discussed during the last War. There has been no provision expressly for prize in the case of aircraft. A number of jurists considered the matter. It has been very carefully discussed, and it has been agreed that the law of prize with reference to ships should also be made to apply to aircraft. I should be pleased to give any information to any noble Lord who may desire it. I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
9.17 p.m.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, doubtless the noble and learned Lord would be disappointed if I did not say a word about this Bill, and I would do anything rather than disappoint him. I only wish to ask one question and to make one short observation. Clause 1 is new, and I accept what the noble Lord has said about it. Clause 2, subsection (1) (c), enables a Prize Court to be established in any "country or territory in which for the time being His Majesty has jurisdiction in matters of prize." A short explanation is I think required there. The law, which I know we will observe, is that Prize Courts cannot be set up in neutral territory. They can only be set up in sovereign territory. I think the Lord Chancellor will uphold me there. These words bear a rather wide interpretation. That is my question, if I may respectfully put it to the noble and learned Lord. My general remark
930
is this, that for several centuries British Prize Courts have established a very high reputation for impartiality and good judgments, and I am perfectly confident that under the leadership of the noble Lord the Lord Chancellor and the Judges he appoints, if Prize Courts become necessary—and I dare say they will; I hope if circumstances arise they will be very lucrative indeed—these great traditions will be maintained. The noble and learned Lord and I have had one or two contests about the validity of certain ancient and established laws at sea, but I am quite sure that in present circumstances we see eye to eye.
9.19 p.m.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I think I can give the noble Lord the information he requires. The matter is a little bit curious, and one has to go into it in order to understand it. According to the old practice, although a Court might by legislation passed in time of peace be created a Prize Court, it was impossible to take final executive action authorising a Prize Court to act as such until after war had broken out, whereupon it was necessary for His Majesty to issue a commission to the Admiralty authorising them to issue their warrants to the Courts required to act and for the Admiralty to issue their warrants accordingly. But by the Prize Courts Act, 1894, Section 2, a more convenient procedure was evolved by which it was provided that a dormant commission and dormant warrants could be issued notwithstanding the existence of peace and should come into force upon a proclamation by the Vice-Admiral that war had broken out. The latter procedure is, however, only available in the case of Courts in British possessions, and it was thought desirable by the persons who drafted this Bill—and rightly thought desirable—to make the practice of the Act of 1894 applicable also to places which were substantially under the régime of His Majesty's Government—that is to say, those Protectorates and Mandated Territories of which the Government have the Mandate, and any other territory where for the time being His Majesty's Government have jurisdiction in the matters of prize. That is, I think I am right in saying, the only object of what is stated in subsection (1) of Clause (2) to which the noble Lord referred. I feel sure that every effort will

931
be made to do what the noble Lord has suggested.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

GOVERNMENT OF INDIA ACT (AMENDMENT) BILL.
Read 1a.
9.22 p.m.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF ZETLAND): My Lords, this small Bill consists of two clauses of a miscellaneous Government of India Act (Amendment) Bill which has already passed through all its stages in your Lordships' House and which has been held up in another place. I explained the need for these two clauses when the Bill was originally before your Lordships. In those circumstances it is perhaps not necessary for me to repeat the explanation again. I beg to move the Bill be read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Marquess of Zetland.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

COURTS (EMERGENCY POWERS) BILL.
Read 1a.
9.24 p.m.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, in moving that this Bill be read a second time I think I need only tell your Lordships that it follows precisely the Act which was passed on the occasion of the War of 1914. It confers on the Courts certain powers in relation to remedies in respect of the non-payment of money and the non-performance of obligations and provides for restriction on execution and other remedies by way of levying distress, taking possession of property, and entry upon land, realisation of securities and so forth. I think it worked extremely well on the last occasion, and I think that great hardship would arise if it were not passed.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
ARMED FORCES (CONDITIONS OF SERVICE) BILL.
IMPORT, EXPORT AND CUSTOMS POWERS (DEFENCE) BILL.
SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT (TRANSFER RESTRICTION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled Armed Forces (Conditions of Service) Bill, Import, Export and Customs Powers (Defence) Bill, Ships and Aircraft (Transfer Restriction) Bill should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord Chancellor ought forthwith to put the question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House should think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

ARMED FORCES (CONDITIONS OF SERVICE) BILL.
Read 1a.
9.35 p.m.
THE EARL OF MUNSTER: My Lords, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill I think I need not weary the House with any explanation of it. It is similar to that which was passed before the last War, and I think that many of your Lordships in this House will recall a Bill of this character. Unless any noble Lord desires a fuller explanation, I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Earl of Munster.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

IMPORT, EXPORT AND CUSTOMS POWERS (DEFENCE) BILL.
Read 1a.
10.36 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, this Bill is rendered necessary for two main reasons: first, to facilitate the control of exports and imports in time of war, and secondly, to remedy certain weaknesses in the present law. The present powers as regards exports are those in the Customs and Inland Revenue Act, 1879, as amended. Under these powers a Proclamation or Order in Council can be issued in time of war prohibiting the export of any specified article to all destinations or to specified destinations. As regards imports, the present powers are contained mainly in the Customs Consolidation Act of 1876, but it has been held in the case of the Attorney-General versus Brown in 1920 that that. Act gives power only to control the import of arms and munitions and similar goods. In war it will be necessary to control the import of many other classes of goods. It is essential in war to have all control of exports and imports on a satisfactory legal basis, and it is considered desirable that the power to regulate both imports and exports, and to vary any prohibition or regulation, should be in the hands of the Board of Trade. This, as we think, essential power is contained in the Bill. The Bill also contains other provisions to assist the Customs in maintaining control of exports and imports at the ports in war, and also to prevent the import and export of any goods. These powers are contained in Clauses 3 to 7. Clause 8 is the interpretation clause. Clause 9 settles the coming into force of the. Act, and provides that it shall only continue in force during the emergency that is the occasion of the passing of the Act.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
9.39 p.m.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, as we seem to be working more rapidly than
934
the House of Commons, may I take the opportunity of saying one word on this very important Bill? It does, as Lord Templemore explained, have two purposes, one relating to the blockade of any of the King's enemies and the other is to prevent abnormal imports, to protect exchanges and also to prevent the export of goods that we cannot spare from the country. It follows the lines of the similar Act in the last War. Now in the last War tremendous irritation, delay and loss to traders were caused by the slow-moving machinery, in the first months particularly, after this legislation was passed. Exporters and merchants, engaged on most desirable and legitimate trade, could not get the necessary permits for their business, and I do hope the influential members of the Government present will do their best to see that we have a more quick-moving machinery. I think the Government will agree that if we are going in for a long war it will be most essential to keep our exports going, otherwise we blockade ourselves.
It is just as important in a way as blockading the King's enemies. I do not think that was realised in the last War. I say so with great deference in the presence of the noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, who was then a member of the Cabinet. Until quite late on, I think it was not realised how important it was to keep our ordinary export trade going. I had many complaints from my own constituents, when I represented a great mercantile community in another place. Let us learn our lesson from that, and try to help our exporters, and not drive them almost insane by such delays as occurred between 1914 and 1918.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, the noble Lord has raised a point of great importance, and I can only say at this stage that his remarks will be duly noted. I hope and believe that the annoying and irritating delays about which he speaks will not be experienced in any war that we may unfortunately have to wage.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

SHIPS AND AIRCRAFT (TRANSFER RESTRICTION) BILL.
Read 1a.
9.44 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. It is a somewhat complicated Bill, and I am afraid I have not had very much time to master the details of it. Its purpose is to ensure, so far as possible, that the ships and aircraft covered by it do not become available directly or indirectly for use on the side of the enemy, and that all British ships and aircraft which are required for use in the British interest during the war remain liable to the war-time powers of control (including requisitioning) of the United Kingdom. As an emergency measure and pending the enactment of the Bill, the restrictions on the transfer and registry of ships were brought into force on August 25 by paragraphs (1) and (2) of Regulation 47 of the Defence Regulations, 1939. The enactment of the present Bill will make the continuance of these paragraphs unnecessary.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

RENT AND MORTGAGE INTEREST RESTRICTIONS BILL. LANDLORD AND TENANT (WAR DAMAGE) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
10.17 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions Bill and Landlord and Tenant (War Damage) Bill should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord
936
Chancellor ought forthwith to put the question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House should think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

RENT AND MORTGAGE INTEREST RESTRICTIONS BILL.
Read 1a.
10.18 p.m.
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR DOMINION AFFAIRS (THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE): My Lords, when the last War occurred restrictions on increases of rent and rates of mortgage interest and prevention of eviction were not introduced until some months had elapsed, but the Government have decided in the light of experience that it is most desirable that restrictions should be brought into force at once in the present emergency. The restrictions introduced in 1915 were modified in many ways by subsequent War and post-War legislation, and at the moment there are still some millions of the smaller houses in the country which are controlled. The present Bill continues to control the rent of those houses at present controlled and provides that there shall be no further decontrol of such houses by the landlord obtaining vacant possession.
In the same form the Bill extends control to all houses now in existence (except those belonging to housing authorities) whose rateable value does not exceed £100 in the Metropolitan police district, £75 elsewhere in England and £90 in Scotland. Houses belonging to housing authorities do not come within the scope of the Bill because their rents depend upon different conditions with which I need not detain your Lordships. The Bill therefore will bring under control houses previously decontrolled and new houses erected since 2nd April, 1919, which will include the vast majority of houses in the country—all except a very small minority of large houses. The form of the Bill and the way in which it will work is familiar to the people and the Government have formed the conclusion that this Bill is necessary. I ask your Lordships to pass it, and I beg to move that it be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Duke of Devonshire)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

LANDLORD AND TENANT (WAR DAMAGE) BILL.
Read 1a.
10.20 p.m.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, in moving that this Bill be read a second time I would like to give your Lordships a slight indication of the reasons for the measure, which is a new matter. The position is this. In most cases, or at least in many cases, as your Lordships know, a tenant gives an absolute covenant to repair, and his liability under existing law is to repair notwithstanding the fact that the premises are destroyed by some event not within the contemplation of either party—for instance, if the house is struck by lightning or if it be bombed by an enemy power. In either event the tenant will still have to repair. In the last War there were two circumstances which it is thought differentiated that case from the present one. In the first place the risk of damage by enemy action was comparatively small as compared with what may be results of war at the present time. Secondly, in the last War, when the risk became at all serious the Government instituted, as your Lordships will remember, some insurance against war damage, and I think I am right in saying it was a profitable transaction.
On the present occasion not only is there danger that there may be quite a large amount of damage to property by enemy action but further it is a fact that it is virtually impossible to insure against it. The insurance companies have asserted that they are not prepared to be associated with any scheme for insurance against war risk, for the reason that it is quite impossible at the present time to indicate how much risk, computed in money, the losses may amount to. Accordingly the insurance companies will not do it, and the Government for the same reason have not found it feasible to promote any general scheme of insurance of this character. The result is that at present if a number of bombs drop on a
938
large city, and a great number of leasehold properties are destroyed, many tenants will be ruined and quite a large number will be unable to comply with their legal obligations. You have also to remember that in time of war, and even after war is over for a certain time, the cost of doing repairs is very much more than the cost in peace time. Having these points in mind, some time ago, a Committee was set up by His Majesty's Government, and it made a Report.
The Committee went into the whole matter with remarkable care, and the result of their Report is embodied in this Bill. The view they took—and I think your Lordships will agree that it was the right view—was that in a case where loss occasioned by war damage is one which neither party can be deemed to have anticipated that should not come within the scope of the agreement between the two parties. Since the basis on which the covenantor entered into an obligation to repair has fundamentally altered, it was thought that, subject to certain provisions which have been carefully thought out by the Committee, the obligation to comply with the covenant to repair, so far as it arose from war damage, ought to be a thing from which the tenant should be relieved. That is, in effect, done by Clause I (1) of the Bill. Then there are a number of complex provisions, dealing with all sorts of circumstances which the Committee foresee might arise. For example, there is a possibility when war damage occurs that the covenant to repair as regards other damages, having regard to the extent of the war damage, is impracticable. Or again, it may be of no substantial advantage to the person entitled to benefit from the obligation, that is to say, in general, the landlord. There the obligation to repair damage other than war damage is suspended until the war damage is made good.
There are a large number of supplementary provisions included in the Bill. Then it is necessary to provide for responsibilities as between mortgagor and mortgagee, and there the mortgagor is in general treated as a person who, notwithstanding the covenant, is not liable to make good the war damage. It is also necessary to provide for cases where there are ground leases, and you will find that dealt with on special terms in a special manner. There are provisions for

939
cases in which it is right that there should be a scheme of election, to retain or disclaim the lease in cases where the premises are rendered unfit by reason of war damage, and suspension of rent while the premises are unfit. In practically every case where there is any dispute as to whether the premises are so unfit or not—indeed in every case—there is a right to apply to the Courts to determine on which side the truth lies, with the plaintiff or the lessee.
Then there are also provisions for the case of multiple leases—for example, blocks of flats. There the solution adopted by the Bill, following the provisions of the Report, is that disclaimer should be allowed only when, having regard to all the circumstances, it is in the opinion of the Court fair and equitable. I have mentioned the case of ground rents. There is the somewhat unusual case of restricted covenants. It may happen that a house which has been destroyed by a bomb is subject to a restricted covenant, and the question may arise, when it is rebuilt, whether the restricted covenant should apply. That is dealt with by Clause 18. I should mention that there is an important provision in Clause 19. Clause 17 provides that nothing in the second Part of the Act is to apply to an agricultural lease or a mining lease, but by Clause 19 provision is made in the case of an agricultural or mining lease that where buildings or works comprised in the lease
"are unfit by reason of war damage the Court may, on the application of the tenant, either determine the lease or modify the terms thereof, whether by reducing the rent payable thereunder or otherwise, according as appears just having regard to all the circumstances of the case.'
In both these cases—the cases of agricultural and mining leases—it has been thought necessary to exclude them from the operation of the general scheme of disclaimer on the ground that the buildings as a rule form quite a minor part of the premises included in the whole.
As I have said, it is a complex measure. It has been subjected to the very closest consideration, and, if I may say so with humility, I have been through it more than once and have endeavoured in some respects to amend it. On the whole, your Lordships can be satisfied it is a reasonable attempt to deal with the great difficulty
940
and great hardship which would arise in some of these cases if there were no such measure, and I now invite your Lordships to read the Bill a second time. Perhaps I may add, with regard to measures of this kind, that the Government will keep an eye on the position, and if it is necessary to amend them there will be no difficulty in introducing an amended scheme. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a;—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Bill read 2a; Committee negatived.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I have it in command from His Majesty to signify to the House that His Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Landlord and Tenant (War Damage) Bill, gives his consent, as far as His Majesty's interest is concerned, that the House may do therein as they shall think fit. I beg to move that the Bill be read a third time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.
HOUSING (EMERGENCY POWERS)BILL.
ESSENTIAL BUILDINGS AND PLANT (REPAIR OF WAR DAMAGE) BILL.
COMPENSATION (DEFENCE) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
11.0 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled Housing (Emergency Powers) Bill, Essential Buildings and Plant (Repair of War Damage) Bill, and Compensation (Defence) Bill, should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord Chancellor ought

941
forthwith to put the question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House should think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

HOUSING (EMERGENCY POWERS) BILL.
Read 1a.
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE: My Lords, the possible widespread destruction of property of all classes in war together with the fact that no comprehensive insurance scheme against such damage is possible and that no Government compensation could be paid until after the war was over, gives rise to urgent problems of public safety and welfare. One of these problems is how to keep in existence an adequate supply of housing accommodation. The purpose of this Bill is to deal with that problem. The Bill lays upon local authorities the duty of keeping under constant review the supply of working-class accommodation from the point of view of both quantity and quality and the authorities already possess wide powers with regard to the provision of new houses and the repair of existing houses.
This Bill extends the duty of seeing that working-class houses are kept habitable and provides that emergency repairs to all classes of accommodation used or required for housing which is damaged by war should be laid upon the housing authorities, working under the supervision of the Ministry of Health in England and the Department of Health in Scotland. The Bill provides that where a local authority is satisfied that any building whether a dwelling-house or not is unfit for housing purposes by reason of war damage; that the building is capable at reasonable expense of being rendered fit; that lack of housing accommodation in the area makes it necessary to render the building fit; and that the person having control of the building is unable or unwilling to make it fit; then the local authority, with the consent of the Minister, may give fourteen days' notice to the person having control of the building that they intend to execute specified works to render the building fit for housing purposes.
942
There are other clauses in the Bill with which I do not propose to detain your Lordships. The principle of the Bill is as I have said. The duty is laid upon local authorities of repairing war damage to housing accommodation so that the public shall suffer as little as possible from damage done in war. A circular is being issued to local authorities laying down in detail their duties and their powers. The cost of any works carried out by a local authority will remain as a registered charge on the premises and no demand for repayment will be made until after the emergency. The necessary money to enable the local authority to proceed will be advanced on loan by the Ministry of Health, and the authority will likewise not be asked to pay interest or repay capital until after the end of the war. I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Duke of Devonshire.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

ESSENTIAL BUILDINGS AND PLANT (REPAIR OF WAR DAMAGE) BILL.
Read 1a.
11.10 p.m.
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. There are many classes of property other than dwelling-houses whose maintenance is essential during war time and this Bill deals with some of the steps which the Government think it necessary to take to ensure that a sufficient number of such buildings is kept in a condition fit for use during an emergency. The general principles underlying the Bill are very similar to those of the Housing (Emergency Powers) Bill. Broadly speaking, the Bill provides that the Government Department concerned shall ascertain and approve the repairs to be executed, and find the capital when necessary, and, as in the case of housing accommodation, that where any money is advanced for rebuilding of a particular property, it will become a charge on that property.

943
The proposed arrangements will apply to buildings which in the opinion of the appropriate Minister, (a) are essential to the welfare of the civil population, (b) have become wholly or partly incapable of use for their normal purpose by reason of war damage, (c) can he repaired at a reasonable cost, and (d) whose repair is essential owing to the lack of other buildings available for the purpose for which the building is used. The appropriate Minister will be, in relation to any building or undertaking, the Minister in charge of the Government Department concerned with the purposes for which the building is used or the undertaking is carried on. The Bill places these buildings in three categories: A, buildings owned or occupied by local authorities, such as hospitals, first aid posts, or schools; B, buildings of the same class in private ownership; and C, buildings not directly connected with the normal activities of a local authority (such as bakeries).
As regards Class A, the appropriate Minister may direct repairs to be carried out, lending the necessary money for the purpose. As regards Class B, if the owner is willing but financially unable to have repairs done, the appropriate Minister may require the housing authority either to lend the money or to do the repairs. As regards Class C, if the owner is willing but financially unable to have repairs done, either the housing authority or the appropriate Minister may lend the necessary money. Any loans made either by the housing authority or a Minister, and any expenses incurred by a local authority in carrying out repairs, will remain as registered charges on the property, and no demand for repayment will he made until after the emergency.
The Bill also provides that the appropriate Minister may lend money for the reinstatement of plant, under conditions similar to those specified for buildings. The Bill farther provides that the conditions attaching to loans must be approved by the Treasury. They have already been drafted, and will be the same for loans by each Department. As regards buildings, they provide for no repayment of capital or payment of interest during the emergency. Loans for plant will be secured on the rates in the case of a local authority, by a debenture
944
in the case of a company, and in other cases by a floating charge under the conditions set out in the Bill and the Schedule. The conditions provide for interest being payable and instalments or sinking fund payments being made in respect of such loans. As in the case of the Housing Bill, a circular is being sent to local authorities setting out the main provisions of the Bill. I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Duke of Devonshire.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

COMPENSATION (DEFENCE) BILL.
Read 1a.
11.16 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a second time. It is a Bill to authorise and regulate the payment of compensation in respect to the requisitioning of property and other similar action taken under certain emergency powers, including powers defined by the Regulations recently made under the Emergency Powers Act of this year, which was passed through all its stages on Thursday, August 24. A Compensation Bill is a necessary supplement to the emergency powers; without it there might be doubts and difficulties as to whether compensation would be payable, and on what terms. The Defence Regulations authorise "a competent authority to take possession of land," and further authorise the requisitioning of property other than land, including, for example, a British ship, but the Defence Regulations do not provide how the owners of property thus requisitioned or taken are to be paid. This is to be provided in the present Bill, which is really an essential part of the scheme for requisitioning in an emergency. Until the Bill is law there is no code regulating the standard of payment or providing how the figures of compensation are to be arrived at.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.
REGIONAL COMMISSIONERS BILL.
MINISTERS OF THE CROWN (EMERGENCY APPOINTMENTS) BILL.
WAR DAMAGE TO LAND (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
11.24 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I beg to move, That it is the opinion of this House that it is essentially necessary for the public security that the Bills this day brought from the House of Commons intituled Regional Commissioners Bill, Ministers of the Crown (Emergency Appointments) Bill, and War Damage to Land (Scotland) Bill should forthwith be proceeded in with all possible despatch, and that notwithstanding Standing Orders Nos. LIV and XXXIX the Lord Chancellor ought forthwith to put the Question upon every stage of the said Bills in which this House should think it necessary for the public security to proceed therein.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

REGIONAL COMMISSIONERS BILL.
Read 1a.
11.25 p.m.
THE EARL OF LUCAN: My Lords, this Bill provides authority for the payment of salaries and allowances for expenses to Regional Commissioners and Deputy Regional Commissioners appointed by His Majesty under the scheme of regional organisation for civil defence, and also for District Commissioners or Deputy Commissioners appointed by the Secretary of State for Scotland to act in a similar capacity. The Bill also provides that no person to whom a salary or allowance is payable under this Bill shall thereby be disqualified from acting as a Member of Parliament. This refers to the rule that persons accepting an office of profit under the Crown should be disqualified
946
from sitting. It is therefore considered desirable that the Bill should be passed forthwith as several Members of Parliament have accepted offers, in order to remove any doubt which might otherwise exist as to the position of those Members of Parliament who have agreed to undertake this public duty. I beg to move this Bill be read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Earl of Lucan.)
LORD STRABOLGI: May we be informed how much we are supposed to pay these gentlemen?
THE EARL OF LUCAN: A question was asked in the House of Commons in April, and it was then answered by the statement that Regional Commissioners and Deputy Regional Commissioners will in time of war be eligible to receive salaries not exceeding £2,500 a year and £1,000 a year respectively. Many of the persons appointed as Regional Commissioners will no doubt be ready to undertake these duties without remuneration, but others will not be in a position to act without remuneration and will receive such salaries within the limits indicated as may be decided to be appropriate in each particular case.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

MINISTERS OF THE CROWN (EMERGENCY APPOINTMENTS) BILL.
Read 1a.
11.27 p.m.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, this Bill deals with the appointment of Ministers in connection with the prosecution of war. His Majesty may without legislation appoint as many Ministers as he desires; but it is convenient to make provision for certain detailed arrangements, such as the taking of the Oath, the adoption of a Seal and the exercise of departmental functions by the Emergency Ministers of the Crown. It is the purpose of this Bill to make such provision. Your Lordships will see under Clause 5 that the duties which are now undertaken by one department can

947
be transferred to one of these new departments if it be found desirable to do so. I beg to move the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Earl Stanhope.)
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl how many extra Ministers it is proposed to appoint and to what posts?
EARL STANHOPE: I am afraid I cannot give that information. I know several of them, but I do not want to deceive the House by stating perhaps an inadequate number or perhaps mentioning some which have now been swallowed up and put into others. I fancy there are four or five at least.
On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

WAR DAMAGE TO LAND (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Read 1a.
11.30 p.m.
LORD TEMPLEMORE: My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a second time. This Bill corresponds to the English Landlord and Tenant (War Damage) Bill which was taken through this House a short time ago by my noble friend the Duke of Devonshire, but it differs from it very considerably in view of the great differences between the laws of the two countries regarding land tenure. The main provisions of this Bill are, firstly, that obligations to repair damage to land (which includes buildings) arising from the titles and so forth to the land, or derived from any enactment, are not to extend to war damage. Secondly, power is given to the Sheriff Court on the application of any party interested in land, which suffers war damage, to suspend or modify the terms of the title deeds and so forth relating to the land or to terminate the contract under which it is held. Thirdly, special provision is made in the case of war damage to buildings comprising separate tenements belonging to different people, the Sheriff being empowered to exercise
948
powers conferred on him by the Burgh Police (Scotland) Act, 1892, regarding various buildings belonging to several owners. And fourthly, the repair of war damage to an entailed estate is included among the improvements the cost of which can be charged on the estate by the heir of entail in possession.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a;—(Lord Templemore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a; Committee negatived.
EARL STANHOPE: I have it in command from His Majesty to signify to the House that, His Majesty having been informed of the purport of the War Damage to Land (Scotland) Bill gives his consent, so far as His Majesty's interest is concerned, that the House may do therein as they shall think fit.
Bill read 3a, and passed, and a Message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL [H.L.].
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.].
Returned from the Commons, agreed to.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal Assent was given to the following Bills:

Appropriation (No. 2),

Currency (Defence),

Prize,

Government of India Act (Amendment),

Courts (Emergency Powers),

Armed Forces (Conditions of Service),

Import, Export and Customs Powers (Defence),

Ships and Aircraft (Transfer Restriction),

Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions),

Landlord and Tenant (War Damage),

949

Housing (Emergency Powers),

Essential Buildings and Plant (Repair of War Damage),

Compensation (Defence),

Regional Commissioners,

Ministers of the Crown (Emergency Appointments),

Administration of Justice (Emergency Provisions),

Administration of justice (Emergency Provisions) (Scotland),

War Damage to Land (Scotland).

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, it will be necessary to ask your Lordships to sit not only to-morrow but also on Sunday. I propose, therefore, that the House should adjourn now until three o'clock on Saturday afternoon, and I hope then to be able to announce the time of meeting on Sunday. The only business to-morrow
950
will be to receive such statement as His His Majesty's Government are able to make. There will be no Bills to deal with, but there will be Bills on Sunday, followed by a Royal Commission. I would like to ask your Lordships whether you would prefer to sit on Sunday morning or on Sunday afternoon. I think it would be preferable to meet on Sunday afternoon. I think another place will probably meet earlier but we might have to adjourn several times if we met in the morning. Therefore I suggest that we should meet in the afternoon, probably at three o' clock.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, may I ask whether the noble Earl is in a position to say if there will be any sittings next week after Sunday?
EARL STANHOPE: It is most probable that we shall have to sit several times next week, but I cannot say yet how often.
House adjourned at eight minutes before midnight.