§ 4.34 p.m.
§ LORD PORTSEAhad the following Notice on the Paper: To ask His Majesty's Government why a member of this House recently on a visit to his home in the Norman Archipelago (the Appanage of the Crown) was required to obtain a passport before being permitted to return to the mainland to attend to duties as a member of this House and if this procedure can be inquired into and varied.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I wish to ask your Lordships' indulgence because I have to carry notes in my hands and may need to refer to them. I have very recently left a nursing home and I dare not trust my memory. A few weeks ago I had the privilege of asking a question on the subject of the Norman Islands and the noble Lord who replied told me that neither he himself nor his Department had been able to trace them either on the map or anywhere else. Indeed he went so far as to say that the only Norman Island he could find was situated off the North coast of Newfoundland. I admit I was rather surprised, but on reflection it struck me that the noble Lord himself had a Norman name, and was of Norman origin, and was standing on a Norman Island, in the conquering, dividing up and colonising of which his forbears assisted. Natural for him to come to the conclusion there could only be one such Norman Island. To-day therefore I have put in the question the words "Norman Archipelago," in the hope that those who are more learned than myself, who have read of the Grecian Archipelago and the great men who were produced in that Archipelago (which they will remember is off the coast of Greece), will perhaps consider that the Norman Archipelago may be situated off the coast of Normandy.
§ The Norman Islands that I am specially interested in to-day are the Appanage of the Crown; I believe the only Appanage that exists. They are described by Coke and Hale as "Parcel of the Dominion of the Crown … not in the Realm but Parcel of the ancient Duchy of Normandy which neither the power of the Crown nor the Kings of France have been able to wrest from us." That will place 1718 the Norman Islands where I think they ought to be. In the days of the Revolution when the Usurper proclaimed "the man Charles," as he called him, and threatened with death anyone who succoured him, the Islands rose to their proper place and immediately proclaimed King Charles as king. They succoured him, they fought for him, and they received his thanks. It was only when Blake with six ships came to the island and attacked it that the King advised them for the moment to give way, and they, on the most honourable terms, surrendered to the Usurper. The King showed his gratitude to them on his return, when in fact, in his own words, recalling his stay in Jersey when driven out of his other Dominions, he gave the Island a gold mace, finer than your Lordships'.
§ It is a glorious record; it is untouchable and it is undying. The Islands are very small. The isles of Greece are small also, and there is another little country which is not very much larger. The majority of your Lordships' House can trace their origin back to Normandy, and have Norman blood. There is another small country which gave us men of unequalled ability and character, men whose country we recall when we speak of Bethlehem and Nazareth. I have never met one of those men who, though his family had been hundreds of years in this country, was ashamed of his origin or of his mother country.
§ The matter that I am bringing before your Lordships is not an academic one and it is not a trifle. It is the right of a member of this House to return to his duties in this House—when I say "this House" I mean the Houses of Parliament—without having to associate himself with aliens, spies and traitors and put his name upon a form given him by the Aliens Office on a passport. I maintain that a member of this House returning to his duties in this House should be free of all that kind of thing, which is a lowering, not of the privileges, but of the rights of Parliament.
§ 4.40 p.m.
§ LORD NEWTONMy Lords, before an answer is given to the noble Lord, 1719 although I do not want to waste the time of the House, I cannot refrain from expressing regret that this question has appeared upon the Order Paper, in spite of the valuable geographical and historical dissertation to which we have just listened. Anyone reading the question on the Order Paper would assume it was something of portentous importance, whereas, as a matter of fact, it is quite one of the most insignificant questions I have ever seen upon a Parliamentary Paper. I regret very much the time and the trouble and even the money which have been spent in preparing an answer to the noble Lord.
What does this complaint amount to? It will not be news to the noble Lord that we are in a state of war. The Norman Archipelago, or to use the language of ordinary people, the Channel Islands, are an important military area. The War Office have made, I presume, certain regulations compelling the inhabitants of those Islands, and visitors to them, to obtain some special permit when coming to the mainland. Well, where does the noble Lord's grievance come in? I am quite sure that he does not think he is the only person affected, and although he is a Peer and a member of Parliament, the regulations do not seem to have prevented him from coming here. I do not know that he comes very often. I absolutely fail to see in what the noble Lord's grievance consists. I do not know what sort of answer he will get. Perhaps he will get an abject apology from some officer for having disagreed with his inclination, but personally I am quite unable to see where his grievance lies. It seems to me that he might with equal propriety have protested as a Peer and a member of Parliament against the indignity of being made to equip himself with a gas mask.
§ LORD PORTSEAIf I may say so, the authorities did not equip me with a gas mask, although they have taken my name and measured my head. Perhaps it was too large, or perhaps too insignificant, as the noble Lord suggests, to make it worth their while to send me one. There are, I think, no military stations in the Channel Islands—
SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order, order.
§ 4.44 p.m.
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE MARQUESS OF DUFFERIN AND AVA)My Lords, I feel that any contribution I can make to this debate, after what has already been said, will appear rather prosaic, but I would like to say that I understand the root of my noble friend's question lies in a very natural mistrust of bureaucracy in time of emergency. If I understand him aright, he feels that some bureaucrat or politician is seeking to take advantage of the time of emergency, to force vexatious regulations upon the community which are unnecessary. I think we should consider the matter carefully before we condemn these regulations to which my noble friend has had to subject himself, and consider whether they are in fact vexatious or unnecessary. It is quite obviously of the highest importance in time of war that immigration officers should be able to maintain strict control over those who constitute the passenger traffic, whether between England and foreign countries, or between England and the Channel Islands, or between England and Northern Ireland. The whole point and purpose of asking those who come into Great Britain from the Channel Islands to carry some document of identity is simply to enable immigration officers to know who they are and whether they are British subjects. It seems to me that any objection to a restriction of that kind in time of emergency is unreasonable. Without some restriction of that kind it would not be possible for immigration officers to control nearly as effectively the entry of aliens who, in the interests of the safety of the realm, should not come into this country.
Therefore while we do not in the least desire to restrict British subjects travelling between Northern Ireland and England, or between the Channel Islands and England, we do ask them to accept these comparatively innocuous regulations in the interests of the safety of the country, and because, unless some method of identification was available, those might come in whose entry would not be for the good of the realm or for the safety of this country when it is at war. Although the Government would always give full consideration to the right of access of members of Parliament, at the 1721 same time I do not think it is unreasonable that they should be asked to carry some document of identity in order to facilitate the work of the immigration officers and to make it easier to keep out of the country those who have no right in it.
LORD STRABOLGIMay I ask if it is necessary to have a passport in order to travel between the Scilly Islands and the ports of this country? Does the regulation apply to the Isle of Man, and what about the Western Islands of Scotland? If I wish to go to the Hebrides and return, must I have a passport? I rather sympathise with the noble Lord in his complaint.
THE MARQUESS OF DUFFERIN AND AVAThe Channel Islands are vulnerable, and so is Northern Ireland and of course Southern Ireland, and therefore naturally the same regulations apply to them, but it would be extremely bureaucratic if, in the interests of complete logic, they were extended to the Western Islands of Scotland. If they did, I think the noble Lord would be the first to complain of bureaucracy.