HL Deb 22 March 1939 vol 112 cc373-5
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF ONSLOW)

My Lords, I think the reason for the Motion which stands in my name requires that a little explanation should be made. In the model clauses for gas Bills there is one which provides for the fixation of dividends at a certain maximum sum. If the profits of the statutory company exceed this sum they are used to reduce the price of gas to the consumer. That model clause is No. 20 in the printed volume of model clauses. There are analogous clauses—not the same, but based on the same idea—to be found dealing with electricity and water. Some time ago it was brought to my notice that our model clauses were not in accordance altogether with modern conditions, and that it might be possible in a perfectly proper and legal manner to render the provisions which were inserted in Bills, and therefore the intentions of Parliament, of no avail.

I do not think I need weary your Lordships with a long explanation of the matter and the reasons for which I am advised these clauses may have become obsolete, but as your Lordships are well aware one of my duties is to ensure that the intention of your Lordships is carried out by the provisions inserted in Private Bills by the House and approved by the House in Special Orders. When I learned that it was possible that our clauses were perhaps unsatisfactory for that purpose, I felt bound to take the matter up, because obviously it would be impossible for me to recommend to your Lordships clauses in Private Bills which I was not certain were effective. Of course, it would have been possible for me to alter the clauses on my own authority and to submit them for the consideration of your Lordships, or it might have been possible the next time the matter came up for consideration and it was sought to include one of the clauses in a Bill, for me to have turned it into an opposed clause under Standing Order No. 110 and to have asked a Select Committee of your Lordships' House to examine it. But I did not think either of these courses seemed particularly satisfactory, and so I sought the advice of the various departments concerned, and the proposal which I am submitting to your Lordships this afternoon is the result of my consultation with the Board of Trade, the Ministry of Transport and the Electricity Commissioners.

So, with the concurrence of His Majesty's Government, I venture to ask your Lordships to look into the matter and appoint a Committee to report to the House what action, if any, should be taken. To me the matter seems one entirely of drafting and of making sure that the model clauses inserted in Private Bills and Special Orders carry out the intention of your Lordships and of Parliament, but it has been represented to me that possibly wider issues might be raised. Therefore, it seems to me that we should appoint a strong and perhaps rather larger Committee than usual to go into the matter. It also seems to me that as this is a legal and drafting matter we should secure the services of a noble and learned Lord to take the Chair. I have good reason to believe that the noble and learned Viscount who recently occupied the Woolsack, Lord Sankey, would be willing to take the Chair. I therefore propose to submit his name and the names of eight other noble Lords in due course. I beg to move.

Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to consider in the case of gas, electricity and water undertakings operating under enactments containing provisions regulating the raising of capital, the borrowing of money, the charges to be made or the relation between dividends and prices charged, whether the control of, or by such undertakings by, or of another body (statutory or otherwise) can impair the efficacy of such provisions; and whether, in the case of Bills and Orders relating to any of such undertakings and promoted for the purpose inter alia of obtaining or increasing capital or borrowing powers, provisions should be made for the control of the exercise of such powers as to terms or form; and to report what, if any, modifications or additions to the provisions usually inserted in Local Acts and Orders should be made with a view to their incorporation in future Bills and Orders relating to gas, electricity and water undertakings.—(The Earl of Onslow.)

LORD HUTCHISON OF MONTROSE

My Lords, I should like to ask one question. Was this Committee asked for by any of the Government Departments, or is it purely a domestic matter for your Lordships' House?

THE EARL OF ONSLOW

My Lords, I thought I had made that clear. When my advisers brought to my notice that our clauses might not be effective and were obsolete, I went into the matter and after I had ascertained that they had advised me correctly—or so it appeared to me—I sought the advice of the Government Departments as to what action should be taken. The result is the Motion that I now bring before your Lordships.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

House adjourned during pleasure, and resumed by the LORD CHANCELLOR.