Lords Sitting of 20 July 1939

Preamble
The House met at three of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
The Earl of Huntingdon—Sat first in Parliament after the death of his father.

MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER (HEMEL HEMPSTEAD WATER) BILL.
Returned from the Commons, with the Amendment agreed to.
WALSALL CORPORATION BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendments: a further Amendment made: Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER (EASTERN VALLEYS (MONMOUTHSHIRE) JOINT SEWERAGE DISTRICT) BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
PUBLIC TRUSTEE (GENERAL DEPOSIT FUND) BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

PEERS AND THE OFFICIAL SECRETS ACTS.
Order of the Day for the consideration of the Report from the Select Committee read.
The Committee reported as follows:
"1. That the Committee have met and considered the matter referred to them and have examined the Clerk of the Parliaments thereon.
2. That the Committee are satisfied that no Statute can be construed as being intended to diminish or destroy the Privilege of members of the House of Lords unless express words having that effect are used in the Act.
3. That in the opinion of the Committee the extent to which Privilege extends
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immunity to members of the House of Lords from prosecution is not affected by the operation of the Official Secrets Acts, 1911 and 1920."
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF ONSLOW): My Lords, I beg to move that the Report from the Select Committee be now considered and adopted.
Moved, That the Report from the Select Committee be now considered and adopted.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
4.6 p.m.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, I beg to ask the noble Earl the Leader of the House if he can make any statement as to public business.
THE FIRST LORD of THE ADMIRALTY (EARL STANHOPE): My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord opposite for giving me an opportunity of making a statement, which I am afraid he will not quite welcome, and perhaps I do not either. As he will have observed, the Prime Minister in another place announced that it was proposed that Parliament should adjourn on August 4, that is to say the Friday before Bank Holiday, and I think your Lordships will agree that it would be of advantage to both Houses of Parliament if we rose on that date. But that means, of course, that there is an immense amount of business to be got through before we can get to our adjournment. I am afraid it is constantly the case that your Lordships' House has to complain of a rush of legislation at the end of the Session, and it is unfortunately particularly true this year, in spite of all our efforts. As your Lordships are aware, there have been a number of special Bills which have had to be considered, such as the Bill for compulsory military training. These have been, of course, an addition to the ordinary Government programme, and have badly dislocated business. The result is that we have to face a mass of legislation, as I say, between now and August 4.
Among the Bills to be dealt with is the Agricultural Development Bill. I think many of your Lordships would desire to take part in the debate on that Bill. We hope also to take through all

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their stages before we rise the Building Societies Bill, and the Senior Public Elementary Schools (Liverpool) Bill, relating to a question which has been one of great difficulty to a succession of Governments for some time past. Then there are the War Risks Insurance Bill, the Prevention of Violence (Temporary Provisions) Bill, to deal with the Irish Republican Army, and possibly a Bill to deal with the Polish Loan, in the event of an agreement being arrived at between this country and Poland in regard to financial matters. To achieve the object of getting through these Bills in order that they may receive the Royal Assent, I am afraid it will be necessary to take two steps—first of all, to give Government business precedence over other business until we rise; and, secondly, to suspend Standing Orders in order to permit of more than one stage of a Bill being taken at a single sitting. I propose to put down Motions for these purposes in due course, probably on Monday next. I have approached the noble Lord opposite and the Leader of the Liberal Party, telling them of the difficulties in which we are placed, and they have been good enough to say that they will not put any undue obstacles in our way, although of course they naturally reserve to themselves the full right of any criticism that they feel disposed to offer. But I am grateful to them, because it will help the Government in their business.
Perhaps I might just briefly state the Bills, so far as I see them at present, which we shall ask your Lordships to deal with between now and the end of next week. To-morrow I propose that the House should meet at eleven o'clock and, as the Paper shows, deal with the Second Reading of the Mill: Industry (No. 2) Bill and the Second Reading of the Overseas Trade Guarantees Bill. We also propose to take the Second Reading of the Air Ministry (Heston and Kenley Aerodromes (Extension) Bill, which I understand is a hybrid Bill. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday I think it will be necessary to ask your Lordships to meet at three o'clock. We propose on Monday to take the Bills as they appear on the Paper—the Committee stage of the Cotton Industry (Reorganisation) Bill, the Committee stage of the Mining Industry (Amendment) Bill and the Second
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Reading of the Agricultural Development Bill. On Tuesday we propose to take the Second Reading of the Mining Subsidence Bill, and, if your Lordships have agreed by then to the Second Reading, the Committee stage of the Milk Industry (No. 2) Bill. Then there will be the Second Reading of the Finance Bill and the Question by the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, dealing with the Report of the Rhodesia-Nyasaland Royal Commission.
On Wednesday we propose to take the Committee stage of the Agricultural Development Bill, and then there is an important Question by Lord Ailwyn regarding oil fuel as compared with coal both for the use of the Royal Navy and the Mercantile Marine and, I understand, for use ashore. On Thursday we propose to take the Report and Third Reading of the Cotton Industry (Reorganisation) Bill, the Third Reading of the Finance Bill, and the other two pieces of business already on the Paper—the Clergy (National Emergency Precautions) Measure and a Question by Lord Clwyd. On Friday, July 28, we propose to take the Report and Third Reading of the Agricultural Development Bill and the Report and Third Reading of the Milk Industry (No. 2) Bill. I understand it is necessary to get the Third Reading of the Agricultural Development Bill by that day because Parliament will be asked to pass a Motion approving of a scheme for the distribution of the barley subsidy after that Bill has become law. Therefore we have to get it done in ample time before we rise. That is all I can say at this moment about our business, but I am afraid the House will feel I am putting a very severe burden on it, and I apologise for an unavoidable course of events we are unable to control.
THE EARL OF ONSLOW: My Lords, may I ask my noble friend a question and give him a piece of information which may add to your Lordships' burden? The Committee appointed to consider the Water Undertakings Bill finished its duties this morning, and, if your Lordships agree to suspend the Standing Orders, we might get the Bill through on Monday, send it to the House of Commons, and get it out of the way before the Recess. I know the Government want to get the Bill through as quickly as possible, and I venture to make that suggestion to my noble friend.
EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, I am much obliged to my noble friend. I do not quite know whether it will be possible to deal with that Bill in the House of Commons, which, as your Lordships know, is extraordinarily busy. We shall do our best, and if we can dispose of it in this House there will be all the more chance of its being passed in time.
LORD SNELL: My Lords, His Majesty's Government are never so charming and innocent as when on these occasions they come and ask your Lordships to excuse them for their inability to get their business through and when, with as much geniality as they can muster, they take away from the private member some of his privileges in the way of facilities for his Motions to be discussed. This is not something invented by His Majesty's present Government, but they have inherited the practice, apparently, with a good deal of complacency. We cannot be so hard-hearted at this stage of the Session as to object very fiercely to the proposal which the noble Earl has made. Therefore, with our accustomed grace, we shall try to assist in the completion of public business as fully as we may. I should like to say, however, that before the close of the Session I hope it may be possible for the Government to send us away with some statement as to the then foreign outlook. It may be necessary, indeed, that I shall have to ask for some such statement to be made or, at any rate, to ask as to the conditions under which the House will be asked to adjourn, whether preparations will be made for its being recalled together, and under what conditions, in the case of any emergency arising.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, I am by no means unused to observing the conditions of extreme congestion of business during the last two or three weeks of the Session. I very well remember, when I occupied the place opposite which the noble Earl now holds, I was frequently reproved for the shameful conduct of the Government in treating your Lordships' House with so little ceremony and acting subserviently to the course of business in another place. But I freely admit that in the circumstances of the present year His Majesty's Government have a stronger case than usual for imposing some extra pressure of business upon your Lordships' House, and certainly, therefore, I in no way desire to protest against the very full programme which has been set out by the noble Earl the Leader of the House. Perhaps I may be allowed to add my concurrence with what has fallen from the noble Lord who leads the Opposition. I, too, hope it will be possible for His Majesty's Government to make some statement about foreign affairs before we adjourn, not, I think, with the object of raising a full debate on the subject—I take it the noble Lord does not mean that—but simply in order to satisfy us, so far as we can be satisfied, regarding the position as it is known to His Majesty's Government and also, of course, as to the possibility, which I hope may not arise, of our having to meet earlier than the date which the noble Earl will name as the probable one on which We shall reassemble.
House adjourned at eighteen minutes past three o'clock.