PUBLIC HEALTH (COAL MINE REFUSE) BILL.

HL Deb 01 August 1939 vol 114 cc768-72

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

5.14 p.m.

LORD ADDISON

My Lords, it is proposed that this Bill should be amended on the same lines as the Scottish Bill which has previously passed your Lordships' House, and I have to express my obligation to the noble Viscount opposite for guidance in the matter. I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Addison.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[LORD STANMORE in the Chair.]

Clause 1:

Coal mine refuse liable to spontaneous combustion to be deemed a nuisance.

1. For the purposes of Section ninety-two of the Public Health Act, 1936, an accumulation or deposit of refuse from a coal mine which is liable to spontaneous combustion shall be deemed to be an accumulation or deposit which is prejudicial to health or a nuisance and liable to be dealt with summarily in manner provided by that Act.

VISCOUNT BRIDPORT moved to leave out "which is liable to spontaneous combustion" and insert "in respect of which there is reasonable cause to believe that spontaneous combustion is likely to occur." The noble Viscount said: As the noble Lord pointed out, during the passage of the Public Health (Coal Mine Refuse) (Scotland) Bill, and also during the Second Reading of this Bill in your Lordships' House, many of your Lordships expressed the hope that it would be possible to amend this English Bill so as to bring it as far as possible into line with the Scottish Bill. All the Amendments in the Marshalled List that are down in my name have this end in view, and I think that the Amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Teynham, also has this end in view. This first Amendment is exactly the same Amendment as was moved by the noble Lord, Lord Gainford, during the Committee stage of the Scottish Bill and agreed to by your Lordships. It is considered necessary to substitute these words in order to discourage frivolous actions by local authorities who may know nothing about either the material in these refuse heaps, or about the effective means that might be taken to remove the nuisance.

Amendment moved— Clause 1, line 8, leave out ("which is, liable to spontaneous combustion") and insert ("in respect of which there is reasonable cause to believe that spontaneous combustion is likely to occur").—(Viscount Bridport.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BRIDPORT moved to leave out all words after "nuisance." The noble Viscount said: As this Amendment is consequential on the next Amendment standing in my name, I will, with your Lordships' consent, deal with the two together. As the Bill now stands, an offender under Clause 1 can be proceeded against without the consent of the Minister of Health. It is considered desirable that proceedings should only be instituted with the consent of the Minister of Health, so that an additional safeguard is given to colliery owners. This, as I pointed out before, is also in accordance with the Scottish Bill, where the Scottish Department of Health have to give their permission. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Clause 1, line 10, leave out from ("nuisance") to the end of line 12.—(Viscount Bridport.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD TEYNHAM moved to insert at the end of the clause:

1. "(1) provided that no application under Part III of the said Act in respect of any such accumulation or deposit of refuse as aforesaid shall be made except to a Court of Quarter Sessions and with the consent of the Minister of Health, and
2. (2) in any such application it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove that the best practicable means have been or are being taken for preventing the accumulation or deposit from becoming liable to spontaneous combustion."

The noble Lord said: The noble Lord who introduced this Bill has made it quite clear that he is agreed that the sense of this Bill should be the same as in the Scottish Act, and the Amendment which stands in my name is designed for this purpose and introduces the same proviso. Under Part III of the Public Health Act, 1936, proceedings are taken summarily at a court of petty sessions, and, as the Scottish Act provides for an application to a superior Court—namely, the Sheriff Court—I would suggest that any proceedings under the English Bill should also be before a superior Court, such as Quarter Sessions. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Clause 1, line 12, insert the said new paragraphs.—(Lord Teynham.)

LORD ADDISON

I am informed that the second part of the noble Lord's Amendment is already incorporated in the English law, and therefore it is not necessary to put it in here. With regard to the other point, I am advised that the Amendment to be moved by the noble Viscount is a preferable one for dealing with these cases. If a case has been approved by the Minister of Health, it will go through the ordinary procedure of the Courts, without specification.

VISCOUNT BRIDPORT

With regard to the first paragraph of the Amendment of my noble friend Lord Teynham, this is an alternative proposal to that which stands in my name later on the Order Paper. Lord Teynham proposes that all proceedings in respect of offences under the Bill should be taken in a Court of Quarter Sessions. This is contrary to the practice in modern Public Health enactments, where the Court of Quarter Sessions is regarded as an Appeal Court. Under the Public Health Act, 1936, proceedings would be taken before a court of summary jurisdiction with an appeal to the Court of Quarter Sessions, and this position would be maintained by the later Amendment standing in my name. In the Scottish case, proceedings have to be taken in the Sheriff Court, as the noble Lord pointed out. There is no exact comparison in England with the position in Scotland, but the court of summary jurisdiction in England corresponds to the Sheriff Court more closely than does the Court of Quarter Sessions. With regard to the second paragraph of the noble Lord's Amendment, as Lord Addison pointed out, this is adequately covered by the Public Health Act, 1936. This second provision was included in the Scottish Bill, which is now an Act, because that referred to an Act, the Public Health (Scotland) Act, 1897, which did not give this protection. For these reasons I hope my noble friend will see his way to withdraw his Amendment and to accept in its place the Amendment next on the Paper which stands in my name.

LORD TEYNHAM

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Addison, and the noble Viscount, Lord Bridport, for their explanations. I do not propose to press my Amendment, and would ask permission of the Committee to withdraw it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

VISCOUNT BRIDPORT moved, at the end of the clause, to insert: Provided that proceedings under Part III of the said Act in respect of any such accumulation or deposit of refuse as aforesaid shall not be instituted except with the consent of the Minister of Health. The noble Viscount said: This is a consequential Amendment, and I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Clause 1, line 12, at end insert the said proviso.—(Viscount Bridport.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2 [Short title and citation]:

VISCOUNT BRIDPORT

There is a drafting Amendment to this clause rendered necessary by the passing of the Cancer Act, 1939. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Clause 2, line 14, leave out from ("and") to ("may") in line 15, and insert ("shall be included among the Acts which").—(Viscount Bridport.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended, in pursuance "of the Resolution of the House on Monday, July 24:

LORD ADDISON

My Lords, I beg to move that the Report of Amendments be now received.

Moved, That the Report of Amendments be now received.—(Lord Addison.)

On Question, Motion agreed to, and Amendments reported accordingly.

LORD ADDISON

My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now read 3^a.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 3^a.—(Lord Addison.)

On Question, Bill read 3^a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.