HL Deb 30 May 1938 vol 109 cc758-63

Lease Consolidation Schemes.

1.—(1) A lease consolidation scheme, and the single lease to be granted pursuant thereto, shall be prepared by the Commission in agreement with the working lessee.

(3) The said lease shall not (except with his consent) impose upon any person any liability not being a liability to which he would have been subject by virtue of a subsisting working lease, or render more onerous whether as regards extent, duration, terms, conditions or otherwise, any liability to which any person would have been so subject.

3. The Commission shall further prepare in connection with a tease consolidation scheme a draft substituted lease, being such a substituted lease as the Commission are authorised to prepare under Section ten of this Act, of the premises comprised in each of the subsisting working leases other than the premises that are to be comprised in the single lease to be granted pursuant to the scheme.

6.—(1) The standard amount of rent in respect of any reversion may be determined by agreement between the Commission and the person for the time being entitled to recover the rent attributable to that reversion, or in default of agreement either the Commission or that person may refer it for determination to an arbitrator selected by agreement between them, or in default of agreement, by the Board of Trade.

9. Copies of a draft substituted lease prepared by the Commission in connection with a lease consolidation scheme under paragraph 3 of this Schedule shall be delivered in like manner as copies of draft substituted leases are required to be delivered under the Fourth Schedule to this Act and the provisions of that Schedule shall have effect as if the draft had been a draft prepared for the purposes of Section ten of this Act, subject to the modification that for the references therein to the vesting date there should be substituted references to the date of the taking effect of the scheme.

11. The costs reasonably incurred in giving effect to the provisions of this Schedule by any person other than the Commission or the working lessee shall be paid by the Commission, and sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) of paragraph 5 of the Fourth Schedule to this Act shall have effect in relation to such costs.

LORD BINGLEY moved to add to sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 1 "or deprive him of the benefit of any covenant condition or provision of the subsisting working lease affecting or relating to any premises other than coal." The noble Lord said: The Amendment standing in my name was, I understand, moved in another place, as an addition to sub-paragraph (3). That sub-paragraph aims at securing that no liability shall be imposed which is not already existing, and this is merely a suggestion securing that any benefit shall remain which a person already is receiving. It is a small matter, and I understand that the Attorney-General in another place agreed that the point should be discussed and considered. I would therefore like the noble and learned Lord to tell us whether the Government are prepared to accept the Amendment now.

Amendment moved— Page 81, line 26, at end insert the said words.—(Lord Bingley.)

EARL STANHOPE

The Government are prepared to accept this Amendment, if my noble friend will move it with additional words, so that it will conclude with the words "relating to any premises other than coal or a mine of coal."

THE EARL OF DUDLEY

Will the noble Lord explain the object of this addition?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

All through the Bill we have used the phrase "coal or mine of coal," because there may be cases where there is a hole or passage in the ground which has not any coal at all in it, but is part of a mine. If the phrase be used throughout, if this Amendment is accepted we had better include the words here.

LORD BINGLEY

I will withdraw the Amendment in order to move it in the form suggested.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment moved— Page 81, line 26, at end insert ("or deprive him of the benefit of any covenant condition or provision of the subsisting working lease affecting or relating to any premises other than coal or a mine of coal.—(Lord Bingley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved, to leave out paragraph 3. The noble and learned Lord said: This is consequential. The paragraph is unnecessary, having regard to alterations which have been agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 82, line 1, leave out paragraph 3.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD TEYNHAM moved, in sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph 6, to leave out "Board of Trade" and insert "Lord Chancellor in the case of England and the Lord President of the Court of Session in the case of Scotland." The noble Lord said: This is the same Amendment as was moved previously, with regard to the appointment of an arbitrator by the Board of Trade.

Amendment moved— Page 82, line 36, leave out ("Board of Trade") and insert the said new words.—(Lord Teynham.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

If I thought there was any general desire on the part of the House that the Lord Chancellor—not myself but perhaps some future Lord Chancellor—should undertake this duty, I should consent at once, but I am not quite sure that your Lordships realty want that, or why the President of the Board of Trade should not be an excellent person to perform this duty. If without a Division I can find out what it is your Lordships want I shall comply.

THE EARL OF DUDLEY

Would the noble and learned Lord reply to the point I put, that this is only to prevent the Board of Trade from appointing their own solicitor?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

I think it is so unlikely.

THE EARL OF DUDLEY

I understand there is a precedent for that, and there is nothing in the clause which would ensure that the arbitrator was an independent person.

LORD CROMWELL

I should have thought that the Board of Trade would be an interested party because they have to issue instructions to the Commission.

THE EARL OF DUDLEY

The Board of Trade have already given instructions to the Commission, and it seems illogical that they should also appoint the arbitrator.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

In those circumstances let me say at once that the Government accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved to leave out paragraph 9 and insert: (3) The provisions of Section ten of this Act shall have effect in relation to a severance effected by the determination of a subsisting working lease under the last preceding sub-paragraph as regards a part of the premises comprised therein, as they have effect in relation to such a severance as is mentioned in that section of the reversion on a lease subsisting on the vesting date, so however that the apportionment of the rent reserved by the subsisting working lease shall be made on the basis of the apportionment made for the purpose of the determination under this Schedule of the standard amount of rent. The noble and learned Lord said: This is consequential on Clause 10. As your Lordships know, there was an elaborate alteration of Clause 10 to provide for a severance without the necessity for separate leases, where there was a separation of vested and non-vested premises demised by an existing lease. These provisions simply provide for carrying out that arrangement.

Amendment moved— Page 83, line 17, leave out paragraph 9 and insert the said new paragraph.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR moved, in paragraph 11, to leave out all words after "paid by the Commission" and insert: under and subject to the provisions of this paragraph: Provided that, in relation to costs payable by virtue of sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 8 of this Schedule, the provisions of Section ten of this Act shall have effect to the exclusion of the provisions of this paragraph.

(2) In case of difference as to the amount of the costs, other than costs of a reference or award, to be paid under this paragraph, the Board of Trade may direct in what manner they are to be taxed.

(3) An arbitrator may direct that the Commission shall not be liable to pay any such costs as aforesaid, being costs of a reference or award incurred by a party to a reference who appears to the arbitrator to have been guilty of any such unreasonable failure to agree with the Commission or any other party, or of any such negligence or default, as to disentitle him to payment thereof."

The noble and learned Lord said: This is purely consequential on what has already been done.

Amendment moved— Page 84, line 21, leave out from ("Commission") to end of the Schedule and insert the said new words.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Fifth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Sixth Schedule [Grant of leases to freeholders in possession of coal immediately before the vesting date]:

LORD TEYNHAM

The Amendment which I move in paragraph 3 is in conformity with what we have done on the last Schedule.

Amendment moved— Page 85, line 19, leave out ("Board of Trade") and insert ("Lord Chancellor in the case of England and the Lord President of the Court of Session in the case of Scotland").—(Lord Teynham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

The Amendment in my name is purely consequential.

Amendment moved— Page 85, line 32, leave out ("5 of the Fourth") and insert ("11 of the Fifth").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Sixth Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Seventh schedule: