Lords Sitting of 20 June 1938

Preamble
The House met at a quarter past four of the clock, The EARL OF ONSLOW on the Woolsack.
BRIGHTON CORPORATION (TRANSPORT) BILL.
Read 2a, and committed.
LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (TUNNEL AND IMPROVEMENTS) BILL.
Read 2a, and committed: the Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
IRWELL VALLEY WATER BOARD BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendments: further Amendments made: Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
WEST YORKSHIRE GAS DISTRIBUTION BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
HERRING INDUSTRY BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and to be printed.
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and to be printed.
MENTAL DEFICIENCY BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and to be printed.
DUMBARTON BURGH (WATER) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and (pursuant to the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1936) deemed to have been read 2a and reported from the Committee.
PIER AND HARBOUR PROVISIONAL ORDER (CLACTON-ON-SEA) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed, and referred to the Examiners.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER (CHOLDERTON AND DISTRICT WATER) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed, and referred to the Examiners.
MINISTRY OF HEALTH PROVISIONAL ORDER (TORQUAY) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed, and referred to the Examiners.
COWES URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.
WORKINGTON CORPORATION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.
RICKMANSWORTH AND UXBRIDGE VALLEY WATER BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons, agreed to, with Amendments; the said Amendments considered and agreed to.

BRITISH NATIONALITY AND STATUS OF ALIENS BILL. [H.L.]
LORD ALNESS: My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to amend the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Acts, 1914–1933, and to move that it be read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.—(Lord Alness.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, and to be printed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
LORD WALERAN: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Eltisley, I beg to move the Motion standing in his name.
Moved, That leave be given to Lord Eltisley to advance his Motion, which now stands for Wednesday, the 6th of July, to Thursday next—(Lord Waleran.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS BILL.
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without amendment.

FOOD AND DRUGS BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to Order).
Clause 1:
Restrictions on the addition of other substances to any food or drug.
(2) No person shall sell any food or drug to which any substance has been so added.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (2), after "sell," to insert "or have in his possession for the purpose of sale." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I put this Amendment on the Paper to try to make the Bill as consistent as possible. The same words appear in Clauses 9 and 38. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 1, line 17, after ("sell") insert ("or have in his possession for the purpose of sale").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, there is some reason for the distinction of language here, because in practice the sampling officers operating the Food and Drugs law purchase samples and consequently a conviction for selling can be secured, whereas under the Public Health procedure, the medical officer of health normally condemns meat and other food without purchasing it, and the offence is that of "offering or exposing for sale" or "having in possession for the purpose of sale." Therefore I do not think the Amendment is really necessary, but it is, as the noble Lord says, a step in the direction of securing uniformity, and unless any of your Lordships object to it I accept the Amendment.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My Lords, I am very much obliged to my noble friend.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
CLAUSE 5 [Provisions as to labels]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, this Amendment, like practically all the others I have to move, is a drafting Amendment. I do not propose to explain them in detail unless your Lordships desire.
Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 27, leave out ("or written").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 36, leave out ("written or")—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 9:
Penalty for sale, &c., of unsound food.
(5) If a person licensed under this Act, or the Public Health (London) Act, 1936, to keep a slaughter-house is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may cancel his licence.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in subsection (5), after "may," to insert "in addition to any other penalty." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this is to make it clear than cancellation of a licence is to be additional to any monetary penalty that may be imposed.
Amendment moved—
Page 7, line 27, at end insert ("in addition to any other penalty").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 14 [Registration of premises used in connection with the manufacture or sale of ice-cream, or preserved food, etc.]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: There are two drafting Amendments to this clause.
Amendments moved—
Page 12, line 36, leave out ("of the district").
Page 13, line 25, after the first ("the") insert ("last").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is to make it clear that an inn is included. Certain technical objections would follow if that word were not inserted.
Amendment moved—
Page 14, line 5, after ("hotel") insert ("inn").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 15 [By-laws with respect to the handling, wrapping, etc., of food, and the sale of food in the open air]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the first Amendment to this clause is a drafting Amendment to remove a mistake in the original drafting.
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 9, leave out ("A local") and insert ("An").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is consequential.
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 11, leave out from ("with") to ("publish") in line 13, and insert ("any other statutory requirements").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 18 [Provisions as to suspected food]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 16, line 41, leave out the first ("or") and insert ("and either is not to be").(Viscount Gage.)
On Question Amendment agreed to.
Clause 19:
No part of an animal slaughtered in a knacker's yard to be sold for human consumption.
19.—(1) No person shall sell, or offer or expose for sale, for human consumption any part of an animal which has been slaughtered in a knacker's yard.
(2) A person who contravenes the provisions of this section shall be guilty of an offence and, if he is licensed under this Act, or the Public Health (London) Act, 1936, to keep either a slaughter-house or a knacker's yard, the court may, in addition to or in lieu of any other penalty, cancel his licence.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, this is a drafting Amendment also.
Amendment moved—
Page 17, line 29, leave out ("or in lieu of").—(Viscount Gage).
On Question Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (2), after "cancel," to insert "or suspend." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, under Clause 21, 1 (d), there is power to suspend, and I think it ought also to be included in this clause.
Amendment moved—
Page 17, line 30, after ("cancel") insert ("or suspend").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the noble Viscount has moved on the ground of uniformity. I understood that he had in mind that a man might not be able to get his licence renewed if it had been cancelled. I am informed that that is not the case and that he would at any time after the licence had been cancelled be able to apply to the local authority for a new one.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 22:
Power to refuse, or cancel, registration of dairymen.
(5) An authority may require a person who applies to them for registration as a retail purveyor of milk to give to them, before his application is considered, information as to whether he is, or has been, registered as such

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a purveyor, either in their district or in the district of any other authority, and, if an applicant who is so required gives to the authority any information which is false, he shall be guilty of an offence.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (5), after "false," to insert "in any material respect." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, in these cases I think these words generally appear, and in fact the latest example is in the Road Haulage Bill, which has been before your Lordships already.
Amendment moved—
Page 21, line 26 after ("false") insert ("in any material respect").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, we accept this Amendment.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 24 [Certain additions not to be made to milk, and certain liquids not to be sold as milk]:
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My Amendment is consequential on the first Amendment which my noble friend accepted.
Amendment moved—
Page 22, line 12, after ("sale") insert ("or have in his possession for the purpose of sale").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, of the next two Amendments the first is drafting and the second consequential.
Amendments moved—
Page 22, line 18, leave out ("there has been used")
Page 22, line 19, at end insert ("has been used").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
Clause 27:
Regulation of sale of artificial cream.
(2) No person shall use any vessel for conveying artificial cream intended for sale for human consumption, or for containing artificial cream at any time when it is exposed for such sale, unless the words "artificial cream" are printed in large and legible letters of uniform size, either on the vessel itself, or on a label securely attached thereto.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (2), after "size," to insert "and conspicuously visible." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, owing to certain words appearing in Clause 5 of
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the Bill I think these words seem advisable in this clause.
Amendment moved—
Page 23, line 25, at end insert ("and conspicuously visible").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, we accept this Amendment. We consider it an improvement to the Bill.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 33 [Conditions to be observed in dealings in margarine, margarine-cheese, and milk-blended butter]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, this Amendment is proposed to remedy a drafting error.
Amendment moved—
Page 27, line 2, leave out ("package") and insert ("container").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 37 [Provisions as to ice-cream likely to cause milk-borne disease]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next three Amendments are drafting.
Amendments moved—
Page 30, line 30, leave out the first ("or") and insert ("and either is not to be")
Page 31, line 8, after ("owner") insert ("of the ice-cream or other substance in question")
Page 31, line 13, after the first ("of") insert ("the").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
Clause 42:
Prosecutions and penalties for offences under Part IV.
(6) In any such proceedings, the part of the sample retained by the Commissioners shall be produced at the hearing and the court may, if it thinks fit, and upon the request of either party shall, cause it to be sent for a joint analysis and report to the Government Chemist and a person qualified to be a public analyst, and the costs of the analysis shall be paid by the prosecutor or defendant as the court may order.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in subsection (6), to leave out "a person qualified to be a" and insert "some other person holding such qualifications as may be prescribed for the office of." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this is to make clear that the person concerned need not actually hold the appointment of a public analyst.
Amendment moved—
Page 35, line 42, leave out ("a person qualified to be a") and insert ("some other person holding such qualifications as may be prescribed for the office of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 44 [Establishment, or acquisition of market by local authority]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next two Amendments are drafting.
Amendments moved—
Page 37, line 11, leave out ("subsection (1) of this section") and insert ("the preceding subsection")
Page 37, line 15, leave out ("this Part of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
Clause 47 [Stallages, tolls and other charges]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, this is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 38, line 25, leave out ("the foregoing provisions of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 56 [Power of any local authority maintaining a market to make market by-laws]
VISCOUNT GAGE: The next is also a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 41, line 29, leave out ("this Part of").—(Viscount Gage.)
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, although this is a drafting Amendment, may I raise on it what appears to me to be a very interesting point? This is a Bill which has been through the machinery of a Joint Committee. It is a consolidating measure. It is using the wording of other Acts. Why must we have so many drafting alterations? Not only has the Parliamentary draftsmen put many Amendments down, but the noble Viscount, Lord Bertie, with his usual vigilance, is also assisting with a number of proper drafting Amendments. What has happened to the art of Parliamentary draftsmanship in these days?
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, I cannot do more than indicate that when the noble Lord's Party was in power much the same thing happened in connection with Bills of this length. Here thirty-six Acts are being co-ordinated into one, covering a period which goes right back
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to the time of King Henry VIII. Although the Joint Committee have done a very remarkable work in co-ordinating this great number of Acts, a few of the very minor points indicated in the Amendments might well have escaped their notice without anyone being very much surprised.
LORD STRABOLGI: This is not a Party question and I do not make any sort of reflection on the noble Viscount. I do not see any reason why what happened under previous Governments should arise now. This is a Bill that originated in your Lordships' House, and I should have thought that these drafting alterations could have been made before the Bill was printed. This is a very bulky document, and it must have cost a great deal to print. I do not want to resist any of the drafting Amendments at all, but I am making the constructive proposal that the Parliamentary draftsmen should be warned that public money would be saved if care were taken to see that these matters received attention before Bills were presented to Parliament.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My Lords, the trouble is that all these Bills are rushed through at one time, and therefore the Parliamentary draftsmen are given more to do than they ought to be called upon to do.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 57 [Licensing of slaughterhouses and knackers' yards]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 42, line 7, leave out ("of the district").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: The next Amendment is also drafting.
Amendment moved—
Page 42, line 41, after ("time") insert ("authorising their use as a slaughter-house or, as the case may be, a knacker's yard").(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My Lords, thanks to my noble friend's advisers, my Amendment is consequential to an Amendment which I moved and your Lordships accepted, but which I had overlooked.
Amendment moved—
Page 43, line 32, after ("false") insert ("in any material respect").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, we accept this Amendment.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 58 [By-laws as to slaughterhouses and knackers' yards]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the first Amendment to this clause is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 44, line 21, leave out ("last").— (Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: The next is a consequential Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 44, line 26, leave out ("or in lieu of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 59 [Sign to be displayed on slaughter-house or knacker's yard]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the Amendment to this clause is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 44, line 29, leave out ("this Part of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question Amendment agreed to.
Clause 61 [Elimination of private slaughter-houses]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is drafting.
Amendment moved—
Page 45, line 38, leave out ("this Part of").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 71:
Special provisions as to the sampling of milk and proceedings subsequent thereto.
(2) It shall be a defence for a defendant charged with any offence under this Act, or under Milk and Dairies Regulations, in respect of a sample of milk taken after the milk has left his possession, to prove that the churn or other vessel in which the milk was contained was effectively closed and sealed at the time when it left his possession, but had been opened before the person by whom the sample was taken had access to it.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in subsection (2), after "Regulations," to in-
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sert "or Food Regulations." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this is practically a drafting Amendment. Subsection (2) of the clause provides that it shall be a good defence with regard to prosecutions relating to milk sampled from a container in transit that the container had been opened since it left the defendant. Prosecutions may be taken under the Bill itself or under the Milk and Dairies Regulations and, in addition, as milk for the purposes of this Bill includes cream, they may be taken under the Food Regulations. This last possibility has been hitherto overlooked.
Amendment moved—
Page 55, line 17, after ("Regulations") insert ("or Food Regulations").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 75 [Expenses]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the Amendment on this clause is drafting, and I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 57, line 31, after ("to") insert ("and determined by") and leave out ("whose decision shall be final").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 77:
Power to enter premises.
(5) If any person who in compliance with the provisions of this section, or of a warrant issued thereunder, is admitted into a factory or workplace discloses to any person any information obtained by him in the factory or workplace with regard to any manufacturing process or trade secret, he shall, unless such disclosure was made in the performance of his duty, be liable to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (5), after "liable," to insert "on summary conviction." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, the two Amendments in my name under this clause are inter-dependent. I am afraid I relied upon a precedent without actually looking at it from the Coal Mines Act, 1930, and my memory played me false, because the penalty is not quite so big as I have suggested. Perhaps I ought first to draw your Lordships' attention to the subsection itself, which reads:
"If any person who in compliance with the provisions of this section, or of a warrant issued thereunder, is admitted into a factory

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or workplace discloses to any person any information obtained by him in the factory or workplace with regard to any manufacturing process or trade secret, he shall, unless such disclosure was made in the performance of his duty, be liable to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months."
That seems to me a rather serious offence; and I remembered that in the Coal Mines Act a person who offended in that sort of way was liable, on conviction on indictment, to a long term of imprisonment.
The actual words of the Coal Mines Act are:
"… any person who discloses any information so obtained by him shall be guilty of a misdemeanour and liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, or to both such imprisonment and fine, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months or to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds, or to both such imprisonment and fine."
I think the term of imprisonment should be the same and perhaps the fine. Perhaps my noble friend will allow me to put in "one hundred pounds" instead of "five hundred pounds." This is quite another point, but in referring to the Coal Mines Act I found a provision which does not have any counterpart in the present Bill. It is as follows:
"Provided that nothing in this section shall apply to the publication or disclosure of any information in so far as it is required to be published or disclosed for the purposes of legal proceedings (including arbitrations) under this Part of this Act or any scheme made thereunder.…"
Some such proviso might be put in by my noble friend, perhaps on Third Reading. In the meantime I beg to move the Amendment that stands in my name.
Amendment moved—
Page 60, line 7, after ("liable") insert ("on summary conviction").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, we have been very generous to my noble friend, and perhaps he will not be surprised to learn that we must resist him on this occasion. The noble Viscount has drawn attention to the Coal Mines Act. I have not studied that Act at very great length, but it does not seem to be entirely analogous to the question of food and drugs whereas in the Act on which we are basing these provisions—the Public Health Act, 1936—the same penalties are provided for.
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We feel that there is considerable advantage in having uniformity between the two provisions. I do not know whether my noble friend, in regard to the other matter he mentioned, has overlooked the words "unless such disclosure was made in the performance of his duty." It seems to me, that the clause is perfectly clear there, and that the matter to which my noble friend has referred is already covered.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME: My noble friend said that he hoped I would not be surprised. I am not surprised at anything, especially in politics. I agree, however, that he has been very good to me, and therefore I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 80 [Prosecutions]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the Amendments down in my name on this clause are drafting. I beg to move.
Amendments moved—
Page 61, line 42, leave out from ("effect") to ("in") in line 1 on page 62 and insert ("and")
Page 62, line 3, leave out ("date") and insert ("time")
Page 62, line 32, leave out from ("and") to ("shall") in line 33, and insert ("a copy of any certificate of analysis obtained on behalf of the prosecutor, and of any certificate given by a justice under proviso (a) to subsection (1) of this section").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
Clause 81.
Evidence of certificates of analysis, and presumptions.
(4) For the purposes of this Act and of any regulations made thereunder—
(b) any article commonly used for human consumption, or in the manufacture of products for human consumption, which is found on premises used for the preparation, storage or sale of that article or, as the case may be, of those products, and any milk kept in a dairy or in the possession of a dairyman, shall be presumed, until the contrary is proved, to be kept for sale, or for manufacturing products for sale, for human consumption;
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the first Amendment in my name upon this clause is drafting. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 63, line 19, leave out ("subsection (2) of this section") and insert ("the last preceding subsection.").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in paragraph (b) in subsection (4), to leave out all words preceding "for sale, or for manufacturing products for sale, for human consumption," and insert:
"(b) any article commonly used for human consumption which is found on premises used for the preparation, storage, or sale of that article and any article commonly used in the manufacture of products for human consumption which is found on premises used for the preparation, storage or sale of those products, shall be presumed, until the contrary is proved, to be intended".
The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this is really a drafting Amendment. It has been suggested that the paragraph as it stands in the Bill is a little ambiguous and this Amendment is simply to make it clear. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 63, line 36, leave out from the beginning of the line to ("for") in line 43 and insert the said new words.—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 90:
Right to carry on business in certain cases while appeal is pending.
90.—(1) Where a decision of an authority under this Act refusing, or cancelling or revoking, registration or a licence, or a decision of a court of summary jurisdiction on appeal against such a decision, makes it unlawful for a person to carry on any business which he, or his immediate predecessor in the business, was lawfully carrying on at the date when the decision of the authority was given, or to use any premises for any purpose for which he, or his immediate predecessor in the business was lawfully using them at the said date, he may carry on that business and use those premises for that purpose until the time for appealing has expired and, if an appeal is lodged, until the appeal is finally disposed of or abandoned, or has failed for want of prosecution.
VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved, in subsection (1), to leave out the first "or" and, after "cancelling," insert "suspending." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, the two matters mentioned in the Amendments are interdependent. The Bill already contains power to suspend as well as to cancel the licences, and therefore I think the word "suspending" should be put in here. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 68, line 13, leave out the first ("or") and after ("cancelling") insert ("suspending").—(Viscount Bertie of Thame.)
VISCOUNT GAGE: We accept this Amendment.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 100 [Definitions]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: This is a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 74, line i6, leave out from ("food") to the second ("or") in line 17, and insert ("does not include a live animal or bird, but save as aforesaid includes in the case of an animal, bird, or fish the whole").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved to insert "'shop' has the same meaning as in the Shops Act, 1934;". The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this definition is proposed in connection with Clause 50, which prohibits the sale of certain articles in market districts on market days elsewhere than, inter alia,shops. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 77, line 39, at end insert ("'shop' has the same meaning as in the Shops Act, 1934;").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 101 [Repeals and construction of references]:
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the Amendment down in my name upon this clause is drafting. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 78, line 29, leave out ("the said repeal").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 102:
Application to Scotland and Northern Ireland.
102.—(1) This Act, except the provisions of—
(i) Sections eight, thirty, and thirty-one;
(iv) Subsections (1) to (3) of Section ninety-two (so far as relating to Food Regulations and Bread and Flour Regulations);
(viii) Subsection (1) of Section one hundred and three,
shall not apply to Scotland, and the above mentioned provisions shall apply subject to the following modifications:—
(a) the said provisions (other than Part IV of this Act) shall be construed as

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one with the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928, and shall be deemed to be included in Part I thereof, and any reference in that Act to regulations made under the Public Health (Regulations as to Food) Act, 1907, shall include a reference to regulations made under Section eight or Section thirty of this Act;
(f) the provision to subsection (4) of Section forty-two of this Act shall have effect as if the reference to the regulations therein mentioned included a reference to orders made under subsection (2) of Section twelve of the Milk and Dairies (Scotland) Act, 1914;
(h) Section two of the Public Health (Regulations as to Food) Act, 1907, shall apply to all Food Regulations and to all Bread and Flour Regulations in like manner as that section applies to regulations made under that Act, and if an Address is presented to His Majesty by either House of Parliament within the next thirty clays on which that House has sat after any such regulations have been laid before it praying that the regulations may be annulled, they shall thenceforth be void, without prejudice, however, to the validity of anything previously done thereunder or the making of new regulations.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in subsection (1) (i), to leave out "and thirty-one" and insert "thirty-me and thirty-three." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this Amendment is interned to apply to Scotland Clause 33 which amends the existing law by permitting other matter than the word "margarine," and any statutory statement as regards weight, on margarine wrappers on retail sale, if such matter is required under any Statute. This is intended to allow statements as to country of origin, which may be required under marking orders, and in fact an application for an order requiring a statement of origin is at present being heard. As the Bill stands, however, such a statement would not be permitted in Scotland. This is done in order to make the regulations effective there, otherwise confusion might arise. I should like to point out that there is nothing new being imposed upon Scotland by this.
Amendment moved—
Page 79, line 26, leave out ("and thirty-one") and insert ("thirty-one and thirty-three").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in subsection (1) (iv), to leave out "3" and insert "4". The noble Viscount said: My Lords, an Amendment was made by the
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Joint Select Committee to the effect that the main regulations under the Bill should be the subject of consultation by the Minister with representative organisations before they are made. This Amendment simply applies that to Scotland.
Amendment moved—
Page 79, line 29, leave out ("3") and insert ("4").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment in my name is drafting. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 79, line 36, after ("cream") insert ("preparation").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, before the next Amendment on the Paper is moved I have two manuscript Amendments which I should like to move. If any noble Lord objects I can put them down on the Third Reading. I will read them:
Page 80, line 8, leave out ("and") and insert "Provided that (i) the expression food shall have the meaning assigned to it by Section one hundred of this Act instead of the meaning assigned to it by the said Act of 1928; and (ii)"
This is a purely drafting Amendment in paragraph (a) and together with the next Amendment it will provide that for the purposes of the provisions of the Bill which apply to Scotland the definition of food contained in this Bill shall operate rather than that contained in the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928. There are slight differences between these two definitions which, in the absence of this Amendment, would mean that the regulation-making powers under Clause 8 would be different in England and Scotland. If your Lordships desire these Amendments to be put down on Third Reading I am willing to withdraw them now, but they are quite minor matters. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 8, leave out ("and") and insert ("Provided that (i) the expression" food "shall have the meaning assigned to it by Section one hundred of this Act instead of the meaning assigned to it by the said Act of 1928; and (ii)").—(Viscount Gage).
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, I have another manuscript Amendment on Clause 102, page 80, line 8, to leave out

19
"that" and insert" the last mentioned". It is purely consequential on the last Amendment to which your Lordships have been kind enough to agree. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 8, leave out ("that") and insert ("the last mentioned").—(Viscount Gage).
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: The next Amendment, which is on the Paper, is drafting.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 24, at end insert:
"(e) the proviso to subsection (4) of Section forty-two of this Act shall have effect as if the reference to the regulations therein mentioned included a reference to orders made under subsection (2) of Section twelve of the Milk and Dairies (Scotland) Act, 1914;").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE: The next Amendment is consequential. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 30, leave out paragraph (f).—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE LORD CHAIRMAN: There is another manuscript Amendment handed in by the noble Viscount, Lord Gage, to Clause 102, page 80, line 39, at the end to add "for any reference to Section seventy-nine of this Act there shall be substituted a reference to subsection (3) of Section twenty-seven of the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928; and."
VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the Amendment which has just been read is a purely drafting Amendment, but I think I ought to explain it. Clause 92 of the Bill provides that the main regulations to be made under the Bill may make provision for penalties not exceeding those for general offences under the Bill set out in Clause 79. As regards Scotland the substantive food and drug law, apart from regulations, will still be found in the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928, although the regulation powers contained in Clauses 8 and 30 will apply to Scotland. Your Lordships will understand that the main Act only applies in regard to certain sections to Scotland and these provisions regarding regulations will apply to Scotland. In the circumstances we think it is logical that in Scotland
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the limit for penalties to be contained in the regulations should be the same as that contained in the general Act which, as I have mentioned, is as regards Scotland the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928. If any noble Lord objects to this Amendment being brought forward at such short notice, I should be prepared to withdraw it and put it down on Third Reading.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 39, at end insert ("for any reference to Section seventy-nine of this Act there shall be substituted a reference to subsection (3) of Section twenty-seven of the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928; and").—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in paragraph (h) in subsection (1), to leave out all words after "1907" and insert "and Section three hundred and nineteen of the Public Health Act, 1936, shall, notwithstanding that the last mentioned enactment does not apply to Scotland, apply to all Food Regulations and to all Bread and Flour Regulations, in like manner as those enactments apply to the regulations respectively mentioned therein." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, Clause 96 of the Bill applies Section 319 of the Public Health Act, 1936, which lays down the procedure for regulations required to be laid before Parliament. In particular this section provides for the annulment of regulations if an Address is presented by either House within thirty days. This Amendment extends that section to Scotland.
Amendment moved—
Page 80, line 41, leave out from ("1907") to end of the subsection and insert the said new words.—(Viscount Gage.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Fourth Schedule:

FOOD AND DRUGS BILL. [H.L.]

  ENACTMENTS REPEALED.
  Session and Chapter.

  Short Title.

  Extent of Repeal.

  41 & 42 Vict. c. 49

  The Weights and Measures Act, 1878.

  Part II of the Sixth Schedule, so far as respects any local authority who are a market authority for the purposes of this Act.

  VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, in the reference to the Weights and Measures Act, 1878, after "authority," to insert "outside London." The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this Amendment makes it clear that the repeal of certain provisions of the Markets and Fairs (Weighing of Cattle) Act shall not apply to London. Your Lordships are aware that London works under a public health code of its own and inadvertently certain sections were applied to London which should not have been applied.
  Amendment moved—
  Page 85, line 37, in the third column after ("authority") insert ("outside London").—(Viscount Gage.)
  LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, I should like to have this point clarified. Just above this in the schedule we repeal an Act of 3 George IV, and in that case we repeal the whole Act which applies to bread sold in "the City of London and the Liberties thereof" Now we come to the Weights and Measures Act which apparently applies to London. I want to be quite sure that there is no further drafting required in 'the drafting Amendments. Why "the City of London and the Liberties thereof" with regard to the sale of bread, and why "London" with regard to weights and measures? Ought this not to apply to the City of London? My noble friend Lord Snell tells me that there are separate Acts for London in many respects, but what is London now? It is growing all the time. Is the noble Viscount satisfied that these words are clear and cover the whole of the needs of the case?
  VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the noble Lord asks me if I am satisfied that the draftsman has done his work completely. I should not like to express a final opinion on such a highly technical matter, but as I have already told your Lordships I understand that London is in much the same position as Scotland in so far as the general code of public health is concerned. London operates under another code. But there are certain parts of this Bill which are being applied to London, and I understand that inadvertently we applied certain provisions of the Markets and Fairs (Weighing of Cattle) Act to London. Unless this Amendment is made the special privileges of London will be interfered with.
  LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, I think I understand now, but I would still ask is "London" sufficient? There are the City of London and the County of London and Greater London. "Scotland" we understand, but is "London" a recognised technical term? I would like to be clear on that point.
  VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the word "London" appears in many Acts of Parliament, which provide that "this Act shall not apply to London." I hesitate to speak positively in the presence of the noble Lord, Lord Snell, who is such an authority on these matters, but I understand that this Amendment makes the matter perfectly clear.
  On Question, Amendment agreed to.
  VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is consequential. I beg to move.
  Amendment moved—
  Page 86, line 4, in the third column at end insert ("outside London").—(Viscount Gage.)
  On Question, Amendment agreed to.
  VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the next Amendment is also consequential. I beg to move.
  Amendment moved—
  Page 86, line 17, in the third column, at end insert ("outside London").—(Viscount Gage.)
  On Question, Amendment agreed to.
  VISCOUNT GAGE: There is a third consequential Amendment. I beg to move.
  Amendment moved—
  Page 87, line 9, in the third colum at end insert ("outside London").—(Viscount Gage.)
  On Question, Amendment agreed to.
  VISCOUNT GAGE: My Lords, the last Amendment is a drafting Amendment. It merely provides for the additional repeal of the Food and Drugs (Adulteration) Act, 1928, necessary as a consequence of the proposed extension of Clause 33 to Scotland.
  Amendment moved—
  Page 88, leave out line 26 in the third column and insert ("Section six (except subsections (2) and (7)); Sections twelve, twenty and twenty-three).—(Viscount Gage.)
  On Question, Amendment agreed to.

HOUSING (RURAL WORKERS) AMENDMENT BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order).
VISCOUNT GAGE VISCOUNT GAGE moved, after Clause 10, to insert the following new clause:
Additional provisions with respect to loans by local authorities.
.—(1) Where in pursuance of Section two of the principal Act a local authority give assistance by way of loan to the owner of a dwelling, then, subject to the provisions of this section and to such conditions as may be approved by the Department the loan may, in lieu of being secured by a bond and disposition in security or other deed of security, be secured by an order (in this section referred to as a "charging order") made by the local authority providing and declaring the dwelling, or the dwelling and such other subjects belonging to the owner of the dwelling as the local authority and such owner may agree, to be charged and burdened with an annuity to repay the amount of the loan.
(2) The annuity charged shall commence from the date of the order, and shall be a sum of such amount and shall be payable to the local authority or their assignees for such period of years, not exceeding twenty, as the local authority and the owner may agree.
(3) A local authority shall not make a charging order, and a charging order shall not be effectual, unless—

(a) the local authority have served on every person appearing in the Register of Sasines as the proprietor of, or as holding a heritable security over, the subjects or any part thereof to be charged and burdened with the said annuity, notice that if no objection is intimated to them in writing by such person within twenty-one days from the date of service of the notice, they intend to make such charging order; and

(b) no objection has been so intimated by any person on whom notice has been so served.

(4) The provisions of Section twenty-two of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, shall apply to a charging order made under this section in like manner as they apply to a charging order made under Section twenty-one of the said Act, subject to the following and any other necessary modifications—

(a) subsection (2) shall apply as if after the words "advances of public money" there were inserted the words—

"(d) any rent charge secured on the premises by absolute order made under and in terms of the Improvement of Land Act, 1864;

(e) any loan made for agricultural purposes in pursuance of the Agricultural Credits (Scotland) Act, 1929, by any company incorporated for the purposes of that Act, where such loan has been secured on the premises by a bond and disposition in security or other deed of
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security duly registered in the appropriate Register of Sasines; and

(f) any charge on the premises created under any provision in any Act authorising a charge for recovery of expenses incurred by a local authority under Section one hundred and twenty-five of the Public Health (Scotland) Act, 1897, or by a local authority or an owner under Section twenty of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, or Section fifteen of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1930";

(b) Subsection (3) shall not apply.
(5) For the purpose of this section a notice may be served by delivering it to the person on whom it is required to be served or by sending it by registered letter to such person at his usual or last known address, or if such person cannot be found, to the Extractor of the Court of Session. An acknowledgment endorsed on such notice or a copy thereof, by such person, or where the notice is sent by, registered letter, a certificate subscribed by the clerk to the local authority that such notice was duly posted and having the Post Office receipt for the registered letter attached shall be conclusive evidence that such notice was duly served on the date stated in the acknowledgment or Post Office receipt.
(6) In this section the expression "owner" has the like meaning as in Section forty-nine of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1930.
(7) This section shall extend to Scotland only.
The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I apologise to your Lordships as an Englishman for moving an Amendment which applies to Scotland, but my noble friend Lord Strathcona is engaged on War Office business and I must try to explain this new clause. It applies to Scotland only, and has been drafted to meet a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Saltoun, and the noble Marquess, Lord Aberdeen, on another Bill. Representations in favour of the new clause have also been made, I understand, by the Scottish Land and Property Federation, the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture and the Association of County Councils in Scotland. The general object of the clause is to encourage local authorities to make more use of their power to make loans for the improvement of rural cottages. It does this by enabling authorities to make charging orders which will have priority over other loans. Before they make a charging order, however, they must give notification to all persons who have already made loans on the property, and if any of these persons object the charging order may not be made. Certain charges such as feu duties are exempted from the prior ranking of the clause.
Your Lordships will see that subsection (1) Provides that these authorities may,

25
instead of taking a bond, make a charging order providing that the property is charged with the annuity that I have just described. Subsection (2) provides that the local authority and the borrower may agree on the amount and the period of the annuity, but it may not exceed twenty years, which is the period during which the general conditions of grant under the main Acts apply. Subsection (3) prevents the local authority from making this charging order unless they have given these notices to which I have referred and unless none of those persons has objected. Subsection (4) applies the provisions of Section 22 of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, to charging orders made under this new clause. That is to give the priority to which I have already referred.
With certain exceptions the priority given by this Bill cannot take precedence over certain loans. They are set out in Section 22, and the subsection also adds three types of charge which must be excepted from the lists of loans over which this section gives priority. Those charges are charges in respect of loans made by the Land Improvement Company, charges in respect of loans made by the Scottish Agricultural Securities Corporation, and charges imposed by a charging order made under Section 22 of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, or under Clause 11 of the Housing (Agricultural Population) (Scotland) Bill. The other subsections are, I hope, quite clear. I hope, and think, that noble Lords from Scotland are satisfied with this new clause, and I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
After Clause 10, insert the said new clause.—(Viscount Gage.)
THE MARQUESS OF ABERDEEN AND TEMAIR: My Lords, I sympathise with the noble Viscount in charge of the Bill in trying to understand a clause which applies to Scotland only. This clause, as now submitted, is a great improvement on the new clause moved on my behalf by Lord Saltoun on the Committee stage, and I have pleasure in saving that the agreements reached at the conference held on May 26 representing all the parties referred to in this new clause have been more than amply fulfilled in the clause. On behalf of my noble friends who supported the clause which I moved on the
26
Housing (Agricultural Population) (Scotland) Bill, I have to thank the Government for putting the clause into this Bill also. The conference in Edinburgh strongly supported its application to the Housing (Rural Workers) Amendment Bill, in addition to being made available for the new houses.
I should like to take this opportunity of thanking, through the noble Lord in charge of the Bill, the Secretary of State for Scotland, and also the Solicitor-General for Scotland, who took a great deal of interest in this conference and has done the legal side of it in a way which pleases everybody concerned. The new clause is going to be of enormous help to us in Scotland in getting more houses improved than would otherwise be possible under the very severe financial strain put upon owners of property who desire to improve the houses which they already possess but have no money to spend without resorting to loans. I beg to thank the Government very heartily.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.

PREVENTION AND TREATMENT OF BLINDNESS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

BAKING INDUSTRY (HOURS OF WORK) BILL.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL: My Lords, I beg to move, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Earl of Listowel.)
THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (THE EARL OF MUNSTER): My Lords, on a previous occasion the noble Earl addressed to me a question with regard to the setting up of trade boards for the baking industry. I have since been in communication with the Ministry of Labour, and I understand that the Minister has gazetted a notice applying the Trade Boards Act to the baking trade, but a trade board has not actually been set up. Negotiations are going on as to who

27
shall be appointed, and it is contemplated at present that there should be a board for England and Wales and a separate board for Scotland.
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Earl for the information which he has supplied, and which exactly meets the point which I raised on the Second Reading.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly:
[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]
Clauses 1 to 13 agreed to.
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL THE EARL OF LISTOWEL moved, after Clause 13, to insert the following new clause:
Application to Scotland.
In the application of this Act to Scotland—

(a) Section nine shall have effect as if after the words "one hundred and twenty-five" there were inserted the words "and subsection (9) of Section one hundred and fifty-six," and

(b) Section eleven shall have effect as if for the references to the County Court and to County Court Rules there were respectively substituted references to the Sheriff and to Rules made by Act of Sederunt.

The noble Earl said: The object of the clause which it is proposed to insert here is to ensure that this Bill, if and when it becomes an Act of Parliament, shall be enforced in the same way and with the same efficacy in the Courts of Scotland as in the Courts of this country. Paragraph (a) provides that a factory inspector who prosecutes someone for committing an offence under the Act may also give evidence during the hearing of the case. Paragraph (b) seeks to substitute a reference to the Sheriff and to Rules made by an Act of Sederunt for the reference in the Bill to the County Court and the County Court Rules. The noble Lord opposite (Lord Alness) understands better than I do the idiosyncrasies of Scottish
28
procedure, and no doubt he will appreciate the importance of this Amendment to the Bill. I beg to move.
Amendment moved—
After Clause 13, insert the said new clause.—(The Earl of Listowel.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Remaining clause agreed to.

LEASEHOLD PROPERTY (REPAIRS) BILL.
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without amendment.
AIR NAVIGATION (FINANCIAL PROVISIONS) BILL.
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without amendment.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
LORD SNELL: Is the noble Viscount able to make any statement as to the course of business during the week?
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM): My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House I desire to inform your Lordships that to-morrow we shall take the Report stage of the Coal Bill and it may be necessary to ask your Lordships to sit after dinner. On Wednesday we shall meet at 3 o'clock and continue the Report stage of the Coal Bill. We hope it will not be necessary to go on after dinner on that night, but it is essential to get the Report stage concluded on Wednesday. On Thursday the House has a good deal of business before it, and we propose to ask your Lordships to meet on that day at 3 o'clock.
House adjourned at thirteen minutes past five o'clock.