HERRING INDUSTRY BILL. (Hansard, 5 July 1938)

LORD TEYNHAM
I should like to support my noble friend Lord Strabolgi in this Amendment. I see no reason why financial assistance should be confined to motor boats. A motor boat is a very expensive vessel. I would suggest that my noble friend's case might be met by adding the words "or other craft suitable for the herring fishing trade." Perhaps the Government would consider having those words added on the Report stage.

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (THE EARL OF FEVERSHAM)
The Government, in considering the policy that was to be adopted in regard to the grants for the construction of new vessels, have given very careful consideration and attention to the question that has been raised by the Amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, and they reached the conclusion that is embodied in Clause 4 of the Bill—namely, that grants should be confined to new motor boats and should not be extended to steam drifters. Before I give one or two of the reasons which influenced the Government, I would first like to say that I agree with the noble Lord that the steam drifter is an excellent machine for catching herrings so far as seaworthiness is concerned and so far as its capacity for fishing is concerned, but, as I indicated on the Second Reading of the Bill, in order that a steam drifter should pay her way and provide a living for her crew it is essential that she should find employment during the greater part of the year. From the Third Report of the Herring Board it will be seen that a limited number of steam drifters can obtain sufficient employment and it is recognised that part of the herring fleet must have the same power and capacity as the existing steam drifters. The point is that at the present time there are 700 steam drifters in all, and for a considerable number of these it is impossible to find remunerative employment in the diminished herring markets.
Motor boats are to be preferred because of their greater ability to find employment in those intervals between the main herring seasons; and, in addition, motor boats are much more economical in both the initial cost and in running expenses. I am told that the cost of a new steam drifter is £10,000 or upwards, whereas a motor boat of the type in view can be built for about one-third of that sum. The amount of £250,000 that is authorised under the Bill will enable about fifty new motor boats a year to be built in replacement of an equal number of discarded steam drifters. A result of this will therefore be a composite fleet of steam drifters and motor boats which, for the reasons explained in the Report of the Herring Industry Board, will facilitate the economic distribution of catching power both at various seasons 569 and also in various regions. The noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, has in support of his Amendment referred to paragraph 84 of this Report but he did not continue to read paragraph 86 in respect of catching power, which says, that: These risks, however, must be faced, as the only alternative is the totally uneconomic method of maintaining more steam drifters than can possibly pay their way. I think that is a very important qualification to the paragraph to which Lord Strabolgi referred.
Certain specific objections have been suggested to this provision which confines the grant to motor boats, and in the previous stage of this Bill in your Lordships' House a noble Lord referred to one of these—namely, that the replacement of steam drifters by motor boats will inevitably result in some reduction in the demand for coal. I agree of course that anything which substitutes the burning of oil for coal is a matter to which we must pay the very greatest attention, but I can only repeat the assurance of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, who said in the course of a debate in another place that this was a consideration that was fully taken into account by the Government when they were considering how best to help the herring fishing industry. The Government were bound to have regard, finally, to the circumstances and needs of the herring industry, and they therefore decided in favour of the policy of concentrating grants on motor boats, for the reasons which I have already endeavoured to give.
The noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, on Second Reading, mentioned another objection, that the demand on imported fuel will be greater if assistance is only given to motor boats, and that in time of war that would be of considerable inconvenience. I appreciate the noble Lord's argument, but I venture to think that perhaps that objection is not so serious or substantial as the noble Lord made it appear to be. The number of motor boats that could be constructed under this clause would be fifty a year or even less for a period of five years. The amount of oil required would be a very small proportion of the total requirements of this country. I suggest therefore that it would be unlikely seriously to add to the demands on the arrangements made for importing oil fuel.
570 Another objection made by the noble Lord was that the motor boats would not render such an important service to the Royal Navy in time of warfare. I understand that the main interest which the Admiralty have in this matter relates not so much to the type of vessel, whether it be a motor boat or steam drifter, as to the fishermen who form the crews of these vessels. So far as the vessels are concerned, we may anticipate that any naval needs that may arise could be fulfilled by using either type. The greater importance is I think attached to the personnel of these fleets. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the existence of this fine seafaring personnel must be of great value to the naval authorities and will be available in one way or another in the event of any emergency. This Bill and the particular clause to which the noble Lord has referred will help in this direction in so far as it will maintain the numbers of men engaged in herring fishing. If there is anything in it as between motor boats and steam drifters, I think that the building of motor boats is likely to make the greater contribution in maintaining personnel because a given sum applied to the building of motor boats will produce more boats employing a larger total of crews than if it were applied to steam drifters.
For these reasons I am afraid it is impossible to accept the noble Lord's Amendment. The Government regard this feature of the Bill, limiting the grant of £250,000 to motor boats, as an essential point in the policy of the Bill. With regard to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teynham, I think he will appreciate from the remarks I have already made that the persons to whom this grant would be paid are the particular persons for whom he wishes to have assistance provided—that is, the smaller fishermen who are not in a company but who, in order to gain a livelihood, can obtain assistance for the provision of a new motor boat which can be utilised for fishing for white sea fish as well as for herring fishing during the herring season. Therefore, I think it would be unnecessary to include the words which the noble Lord, Lord Teynham, suggested seeing that his intention is expressed in the existing phraseology of the Bill.

LORD STRABOLGI
I am very much obliged for the noble Earl's reply, which 571 I find entirely unsatisfactory, but in the circumstances I do not want to press the Amendment. I think the Government are making a mistake and that they are taking a very short-sighted view in preferring these cheap little motor boats to steam drifters. After all, steam drifters last a long time and even if they are laid up they are there when they are wanted. So far as the Admiralty are concerned, they have been so often wrong in other respects that I am not impressed by the fact that they have changed their mind and want these motor boats. However, I am glad that the men to whom the noble Earl referred will benefit.