HL Deb 08 February 1938 vol 107 cc618-22

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Extension of powers of education authorities with regard to courses of instruction]:

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

On Clause 1 of the Bill perhaps I might give a reply to the question addressed to me on the Second Reading by the noble Lord, Lord Addison. He asked whether it was the fact that in some cases public assistance committees did deduct the cost of school meals given to children from the amount of public assistance given to the parents. At that time I told him that this question was not one which concerned entirely my right honourable friend at the Ministry of Labour, but I have been in communication with the Ministry of Health and I understand that while, strictly, all resources (other than those statutorily excluded) should be taken into account in computing public assistance, an informal inquiry made some years age as regards the practice of public assistance authorities in the case of school meals showed that a majority did not in fact take such meals into account when assessing relief. I hope that that reply will satisfy the noble Lord.

LORD ADDISON

May I ask one question arising out of the noble Earl's reply? The account he has given relates to public assistance committees, but not to the administration of assistance by the Unemployment Assistance Board, which takes into account those receiving relief under the means test. Does his reply cover that case as well?

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

Yes, I think it does.

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2:

Certain employments to be insurable in like manner as employment in agriculture.

2.—(1) The employments specified in the Schedule to this Act shall on and after the fourth day of April nineteen hundred and thirty-eight be insurable employments for the purposes of the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 and 1936, and those Acts and any regulations made thereunder before the commencement of this Act shall on and after the said date have effect as if the said employments were employment in agriculture, and references therein to employment in agriculture shall be construed accordingly.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER moved, in subsection (1), to leave out all words down to and including "those Acts" and insert "Every employment specified in the Schedule to this Act that is an employment specified in Part I of the First Schedule to the principal Act shall, on and after the fourth day of April, nineteen hundred and thirty-eight, be an insurable employment for the purposes of the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 and 1936, unless it is an excepted employment." The noble Earl said: This Amendment is a purely drafting Amendment, which is necessary to make it clear that the employments mentioned in the Schedule to the Bill will not be brought into insurance if in any particular case they are barred from insurance by one of the general exceptions in the unemployment insurance scheme.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 14, leave out from the beginning to the second ("and") in line 18, and insert the said new words.—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4:

Treasury advances to Unemployment Fund.

(3) All sums issued out of the Consolidated Fund under this section shall be repaid to that fund by the Treasury out of moneys borrowed by them for that purpose by means of terminable annuities created for terms ending on the thirty-first day of March nineteen hundred and seventy-one.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER moved, in subsection (3), after "under," to insert "the foregoing provisions of". The noble Earl said: This Amendment confines the effects of subsection (3) of this clause to advances under subsection (1) and subsection (2), as has all along been the intention.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 34, after ("under") insert ("the foregoing provisions of").—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5:

Amendments as to discharged seamen, marines, soldiers and airmen.

(2) In subsection (7) of the said Section ninety-six the words "or who is discharged or dismissed in consequence of having been convicted on any proceedings under the Naval Discipline Act, the Army Act, or the Air Force Act, or by any civil court" shall cease to have effect; and Section thirty of the principal Act (which relates to miscellaneous disqualifications for benefit) shall have effect as if at the end thereof there were inserted the following subsection:—

THE EARL OF MUNSTER moved, in subsection (2), after "court," to insert ", or to any person who is discharged on account of fraudulent enlistment." The noble Earl said: This Amendment is of some importance. As the Bill now stands ex-Service men who have been discharged on account of fraudulent enlistment, receive no credit of contributions. It appears that the offence of fraudulent enlistment, as defined in the Army Act and the Air Force Act, is not more serious than some of those for which, under Clause 5 of the Bill, a six weeks' disqualification from benefit is provided. For this reason it is proposed to put fraudulent enlistment on the same footing as other offences on conviction for which men may be discharged from the Forces. Accordingly, a man discharged in consequence of proceedings under the Service Acts mentioned in the clause or by a Civil Court (whether for fraudulent enlistment or other cause) will receive a credit of contributions corresponding with the number of weeks of his service, but will be disqualified for the receipt of benefit for six weeks following the date of his discharge.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 20, after ("court") insert (", or to any person who is discharged on account of fraudulent enlistment."—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

The next is a drafting Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 30, leave out from ("benefit") to ("during") in line 32.—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER moved, after Clause 6, to insert the following new clause:

"Provisions as to Northern Ireland.

7.— (1) Any seaman, marine, soldier, or airman who is discharged or dismissed in consequence of having been convicted on any proceedings under the Naval Discipline Act, the Army. Act, or the Air Force Act, or by any civil court, shall be subject to the like disqualification for receiving benefit under the enactments relating to unemployment insurance in force in Northern Ireland as is imposed in relation to benefit under the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 and 1936, by subsection (3) of Section thirty of the principal Act; and the provisions of the said subsection (3) as to evidence of such discharge or dismissal shall apply for the purpose of such enactments as they apply in relation to claims for benefit under the said Acts.

(2) The provisions of this Act other than this section shall not extend to Northern Ireland save in so far as they affect the provisions of the principal Act which extend to Northern Ireland."

The noble Earl said: This Amendment is really practically drafting, and the one following it is consequential on your Lordships accepting this new clause.

Amendment moved— After Clause 6, insert the said new clause.—(The Earl of Munster.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 7 agreed to.

Clause 8:

"Short title, citation and extent.

8.—(1) This Act may be cited as the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1937, and this Act and Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 and 1936, may be cited together as the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 to 1937.

(2) Save in so far as it affects the provisions of the principal Act which extend to Northern Ireland, this Act shall not extend to Northern Ireland"

THE EARL OF MUNSTER moved to leave out subsection (2). The noble Earl said: This is the consequential Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 37, leave out subsection (2).—[The Earl of Munster.]

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.