§ LORD RANKEILLOUR rose to ask His Majesty's Government when it is proposed to make a statement as to the future Constitution of Ceylon; and whether they will agree not to submit any Draft Order for the approval of His Majesty in Council without having afforded ample time for Parliamentary discussion and approval?
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I ask this Question of His Majesty's Government in no spirit of hostility or even of criticism, but I do want to express the great anxiety that is felt, at any rate by the minorities in Ceylon, with regard to the changes that may be made in the Constitution under which they now live. The population of Ceylon contains no fewer than four considerable minorities. The majority consists, according to my information, in round figures, of some 3,500,000 Sinhalese, and there are 1,500,000 Tamils, 500,000 Moslems, 30,000 descendants of the original Dutch settlers known as Burghers, and 15,000 other Europeans. The reason for the anxiety that is felt by the minorities lies in their experience of the working of the present Constitution. This Constitution is a very remarkable one. I do not know that there is any similar Constitution in any country. It is a strange mixture of legislative and executive functions. In- 660 deed the legislative body are in a sense the executive body as well, and they govern, in practice, through a number of Parliamentary Committees. I believe a precedent, so far as one exists, is to be found in the London County Council, but there, of course, conditions are very widely different as there are two strong alternating Parties for one thing and, in the second place, because there is an extremely efficient official class with fifty years' experience behind them.
§ In an island like Ceylon, with a limited Parliamentary and political experience, the position is obviously very different. Of course there are reserved powers to the Governor and certain reserved subjects to Nominated Ministers but, speaking generally, in most ordinary affairs the powers of the Executive reside in Parliamentary Committees. The minorities complain somewhat bitterly that that is so. They quote various examples which I am not going into now, as I do not wish to weary your Lordships, and of course I do not want to go into the merits of these controversies. I will only say that they do complain of the Sinhalese majority having used their power to the detriment of the minority. I may say that, whatever the merits of a democracy may be, a purely numerical democracy has no attraction for permanent minorities. The noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, whom I see in his place, said in his remarkable speech the other day one very wise thing—that where there are contending races in a country you must deal with them not by areas for electoral purposes, you must deal with them as communities. What is profoundly true in Palestine is true also in Ceylon. Apart from any particular incident, I believe there is general dissatisfaction with the working of the present Constitution, and some change is, generally speaking, necessary. I understand that His Majesty's Government, as is natural, have been in communication with the Governor of Ceylon on this matter. I have not one word to say against the Governor. I have heard nothing but good of him, but he has been there a very short time, and although of course great weight must be attached to his opinions, I do not think that they can be of the same weight as they would be if he had had longer experience. His views, therefore, I trust, will not be in any case regarded as final in this controversy.
661§ There is peculiar anxiety in this matter owing to the procedure necessary. The status of Ceylon is quite different from that of India. In the case of the Constitution of India, many changes will not be made at all without legislation, and a great many more cannot be made without an Order in Council being submitted to both Houses of this Parliament. But that is not the case in Ceylon. In spite of its democratic electoral system, it remains technically a Crown Colony, and the result of that is that its Constitution can be changed by the sheer Prerogative of the Crown, probably by Order in Council, but possibly also by Letters Patent; and if by Order in Council, that Order in Council is immediately valid and effective; it does not even have to lie upon the Table of Parliament, much less require an affirmative Resolution. So it is natural, though I trust it wi:1 not be the case, that there is anxiety in the island lest the people should suddenly find an Order in Council passed regarding which there has been no adequate discussion in this and the other House.
§ I therefore submit to His Majesty's Government that it is essential that they should adopt a procedure of giving full time for discussion I suggest that they should make, when they can, a full statement of Government policy, and then, before they proceed to any Order in Council, they should allow full time for discussion. Finally, as to the Order itself, though it cannot, as I understand, in constitutional practice be brought before the House for affirmation or rejection, still in view of the discussion that should take place, the text of the Order will be before the House—that is to say, before the House in the sense that noble Lords will be able to see it, though of course they will not be able to amend its text. If such time is given, and there is nothing in the Order that departs from the Government's detailed statement of policy, that is all I ask at present, but I do hope, in order to allay these anxieties, that His Majesty's Government and the noble Marquess whom I see below me (Lord Dufferin) will be able to give me the assurances for which I ask.
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY or STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE MARQUESS OF DUFFERIN AND AVA)My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that His Majesty's 662 Government fully realise the motive for the Question he has asked me this afternoon, and we fully realise the difficulty involved in any constitutional change in Ceylon. We fully realise, moreover, that the Constitution as it exists at present is not perhaps giving full satisfaction. I know that my noble friend will not ask me to go into the merits of that Constitution. He is concentrating more on the procedure we are going to adopt. I am happy to be able to assure him that I think all his doubts will be met, because it is not the intention of His Majesty's Government to prevent a full discussion of any proposed changes in the Constitution of Ceylon.
The procedure is going to be this. Tomorrow the correspondence between the Governor and the Secretary of State will be published. As that correspondence will show, the Governor is being asked to lay his proposals before the State Council of Ceylon and to invite that State Council to debate upon them. When that debate has taken place the Governor, naturally, is going to report upon it, and he may, as the result of that debate, have further recommendations to make. If so, that report and those recommendations will be published in the form of a second White Paper. To that White Paper the Secretary of State will no doubt add his comments. My noble friend will see that in the most favourable circumstances possible no Order in Council can be framed before a very considerable interval of time has elapsed. There will therefore be ample opportunity for discussion by Parliament of all principles, or any of the principles Parliament desires to discuss, which have emerged either from the first White Paper or the second White Paper.
My noble friend is perfectly correct in thinking that the Order in Council itself cannot be a matter of controversy in either House of Parliament. That is a matter for the Prerogative of the Crown, and we propose to follow the ordinary procedure with regard to Orders in Council. I therefore hope, after the assurance I have given him that full discussion can take place in both Houses of Parliament in regard to the substance of the Order, the noble Lord will be satisfied. On the other hand, I cannot promise him that the actual text of the Order can be debated. It is possible to devise means by which the substance of 663 the Order can be debated, but the actual text itself is not, I am told, a proper subject for a debate in either House of Parliament. But with the assurance I have given that full discussion of the substance will be afforded I hope the noble Lord will be satisfied.
§ LORD RANKEILLOURMy Lords, I may say after the statement of the noble Marquess that I shall be perfectly satisfied if he can give an assurance that there will be nothing in the Order in Council which goes beyond the substance of the statement which he indicated.
§ LORD RANKEILLOURIt is not a matter of honour; it is a matter of accuracy.