METHYLATED SPIRITS (SCOTLAND) BILL. (Hansard, 1 June 1937)

LORD KINNAIRD
My Lords, the Bill which I beg leave to introduce into your Lordships' House is the Methylated Spirits (Scotland) Bill. I feel confident that this Bill will have your Lordships' sympathy, and I am hopeful that it is one which your Lordships will consider to be worthy of your support. Over 319 many years methylated spirit drinking has reached dimensions that cause grave anxiety. The object of this Bill is to stop the drinking of methylated spirits. Surgincal spirits are also included, as this provision was added in the House of Commons, and therefore, when I refer to methylated spirits, surgical spirits are included. An objection might be made, "Why interfere with what people eat and drink?" My answer would be, first of all, that methylated spirit is not fit for drinking, as it is a distinctly dangerous beverage; and secondly, that the people whom we hope to help by this Bill are among the poorest people of Scotland. Many of them are also most ignorant, and they need our help. They drink it because they need a stimulant and cannot afford to buy the ordinary stimulants which other people are able to buy, and they are largely ignorant of the danger to themselves. Because it is desired to help these people, I am confident that your Lordships will look with sympathy upon this Bill.
It is a commonplace to say that you cannot make people sober by Act of Parliament. I agree, but it is possible to stop people from running into an unknown danger. Your Lordships might ask whether there is a demand in Scotland for this measure. My answer is, decidedly yes, the Church of Scotland are most anxious to see this Bill become law; so are the Free Churches and the other Churches; so are all or nearly all the welfare societies. Your Lordships will have read in the proceedings in another place how many Scottish members have spoken in support of this measure and of the efforts that were made to make it a stronger Bill than it is. As for the local authorities, as long ago as 1933 a conference was called in Scotland of ten local authorities, at which the retailers of methylated spirits were present. It was agreed at that time by all that it was time to take action, and the local authorities again made representations to the Secretary of State for Scotland. During the last fortnight in Edinburgh I have had the opportunity of meeting many representative Scotsmen from all parts of the country. I have taken the opportunity of asking them their opinion of this Bill, and I have found that without any exception they are of opinion that this is 320 a good Bill; the only criticism was that the Bill did not go far enough.
It is interesting to note that the Bill will also help the trade. Take the case of a public-house. Public-house keepers would benefit from this Bill, because owing to the lasting effects of methylated spirits, which I will mention later, if a man who has drunk methylated spirits and afterwards become sober, goes to a public-house and orders and drinks one glass of beer, he will become drunk from the lasting effects of the spirit. Obviously, under those conditions, it is very difficult for the public-house keeper to conduct his business in an orderly way.
May I say a word about statistics? In one of the largest towns in Scotland the statistics show that in the cases of one-twelfth of the people who were arrested for drunkenness the drunkenness could be attributed to the drinking of methylated spirits. But statistics do not show a true picture of the evil, because the purchaser must mix methylated with some cheap red wine, or other liquid, before he consumes it. The result is that the purchaser takes the methylated to his own home and gets drunk there. Obviously, if he is drunk at home he does not get arrested and so appear in the statistics. The police report of the City of Edinburgh for 1936, when giving the statistics, states the following: The question of persons drinking concoctions of methylated spirits, cheap wine and eau de cologne is a serious one, the practice, especially in large industrial areas, haying grown to an alarming extent. Is there any doubt as to the disastrous effects of this spirit on the health of people who drink it?
I am informed by the largest manufacturers of spirit, who make, I believe, over 6o per cent. of all methylated spirit, that 9.5 per cent. of methylated is wood alcohol. I do not know if "wood alcohol" conveys anything to your Lordships, but I remember that when I was in the United States in 1929, and that country had elected to go dry, if anybody had an opportunity of drinking any spirits the terror was lest that spirit might contain wood alcohol. If I may I will read a short quotation from Professor Sidney Smith, Professor of Forensic Medicine at Edinburgh University. He says: It is much more toxic than ordinary alcohol, owing to the fact that it takes much 321 longer to be destroyed in the tissues and the effects of one dose may last for several days. One of the most disastrous of its effects is connected with the disorders of vision. Coupled with the toxic poisoning is the poisonous effect on the central nervous system. Medical officers of health, police surgeons and others, affirm: It saps moral strength and leads to more depravity than ordinary beverages, and in chronic drinkers leads to mental confusion and next to chronic dementia. In plain words that means that a man who drinks methylated is in danger of becoming blind, and if he persists is in danger of becoming mad.
Now I will say a word as to the remedy proposed in this Bill. Miss Florence Horsbrugh, whom we have to thank for introducing this measure in another place, has studied this problem for many years. She has based this Bill on an Act in force in Northern Ireland. This Act was chosen because it is considered by the authorities there to be the most successful of the various regulations they have had in force. It is proposed, under the Bill, that certain further conditions be attached to the granting of a licence, such as the registration of the applicants with a local authority; a record to be kept of all sales; selling only upon receipt of an order signed by the purchaser stating the purchaser's address and the purpose for which he requires the methylated. It also makes it an offence to sell to children under fourteen years of age, or in a bottle that is not labelled with the nature of its contents, and the name and address of the seller.
A criticism has been made that this will not be effective. Is it a good answer to say that experience in Northern Ireland convinces the authorities there that it is effective? I would add that yesterday I had the opportunity of discussing this Bill with the Lord Provost of Dundee and the Chief Constable, and the Chief Constable was definitely of opinion that this Bill would be effective. In his opinion the signing of an order by the purchaser will be effective because a purchaser will not readily sign a false statement. As your Lordships know, methylated spirits are widely used in trade and also in private houses. It is sold by grocers, ironmongers, drysalters, chemists, and others. Of course this Bill will cause additional work, but your Lordships will not be surprised to hear that the representatives of these bodies have said that 322 they are willing to undertake this additional work for the sake of their fellowmen. The desire of those responsible for the Bill has been to provide a minimum of inconvenience to those who sell or buy methylated spirits for a legitimate purpose. I hope your Lordships will consider from my very inadequate remarks that this is a Bill worthy of your support. Admittedly, it is an experiment. I have tried to show that there is a danger; that there is a demand for this measure in Scotland; that such a measure has worked in Northern Ireland; that police authorities are definitely of opinion that it will help in this country; above all, that it is an effort to help some people who are in need of our help, and that it is another effort to bring light into one of the darkest spots in Scotland. I beg to move.

§ LORD ASKWITH
My Lords, I do not want to oppose the principle of the Bill in so far as it is concerned with the stopping of the drinking of methylated spirits. Whether it will do so or not is another matter, because I do not see anything in the Bill to prevent a person purchasing four gallons in one place and then going on to purchase further four gallons at each of a number of other places if he chooses to do so. Still, the Government may have observations to offer on the Bill as a whole. I merely rise to say that I shall put down certain Amendments for consideration in Committee to prevent overlapping and to protect the interests of the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain for whom an Act of Parliament was passed as recently as 1933. They are under the discipline of the Lord President of the Council—I do not know whether he has been consulted in regard to this Bill—and of a statutory Committee; and it appears that this Bill implies double listing, if not taking away power, authority and discipline which is given to the Pharmaceutical Society by a very recent Act of Parliament. I may add that my noble friend Lord Leverhulme supports me in this matter, and some other noble Lords too.

LORD ALNESS
My Lords, I desire in a very few words to support what my noble friend has said in commending this 323 Bill to your Lordships for Second Reading. When a Bill of this character is introduced it always seems to me that two questions arise for consideration. The first is whether the evil which the Bill purports to cure or abate is demonstrated, and the second is whether the remedy proposed is an adequate and an appropriate one. It seems to me that the answer to both those questions in this case must be in the affirmative. As regards the existance of the evil, I am afraid to any of us who know Scotland well that is beyond all doubt or controversy, and if I may be allowed a personal allusion, I desire to say that, speaking from a somewhat lengthy experience both at the Bar and on the Bench in Scotland, I am prepared to affirm not only the existence of this evil but also its magnitude. So far as that is concerned, the Bill requires no further defence.
As regards the appropriateness of the remedy, I apprehend that at this stage the House is invited merely to consider whether the Bill is founded upon sound principle, leaving all details for consideration on the Committee stage. Now, what is the principle of this measure? As I understand it, the principle on which it is based is, with the least possible inconvenience to the public, to check and regulate the sale of this noxious drug. While I do not desire to commit myself to all the details of the Bill, or to subscribe to supporting them in Committee, I do very humbly suggest to your Lordships' House that that is a sound principle and very necessary to be applied. Your Lordships will remember—what impressed me very much, if I may say so, and what cannot have failed, I think, to have impressed your Lordships as well—that we are not being invited in this matter to traverse an unexplored hinterland, but rather to follow a trail which has been blazed in a sister country at our doors, where a similar measure, with similar provisions, has not only been passed but has successfully operated for a considerable period of time. Bearing in mind the various considerations to which I have referred, I venture to think that, so far at least as the Second Reading in your Lordships' House is concerned, my noble friend has made out an overwhelming case.

THE EARL OF MANSFIELD
My Lords, as I entered your Lordships' House this afternoon I heard just outside of it a junior member of the Government plaintively inquiring why such a Bill should be required for Scotland if not for England. One reason is that my fellow countrymen on the whole are more addicted to the use of spirits than are the English people, and a succession of hardhearted Chancellors of the Exchequer has raised the price of spirits to such an extent that many of my fellow countrymen are quite unable to indulge that taste. Hence they are driven, most unfairly, to seek refuge in various most deleterious substitutes. I do not know whether any of your Lordships ever tasted methylated spirit—I did myself once for the sake of interest—but it is a most unpalatable substance. At the same time, there are a considerable number of people who contrive to drink it merely with the addition of water. Others try to disguise the unpleasant taste by mixing it with cheap red wine of some kind or other, or with another noxious drink known as kola which is very popular in Scotland, and, by various other methods, producing beverages known by the names of Red Biddy and similar very picturesque names.
The effects are very serious indeed—far worse than the effects of alcohol. They affect the mind and body alike in a most distressing fashion, and the habitual methylated spirit drinker becomes a menace to himself and a nuisance to the community. In these circumstances I think there is no doubt whatsoever that this Bill will be of very great benefit, and everyone who has studied the subject seems to agree that it will work. If necessary it can be strengthened later on. If it has a fault in its present form it is that it does not go far enough. I hope very much that your Lordships will give it a Second Reading, for I am sure that those in charge of it will be willing on the Committee stage to meet any points that may justifiably be raised.

§ THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL)
My Lords, I have been asked to define the attitude of His Majesty's Government on this Bill. In brief that attitude is one of benevolent neutrality. We welcome discussion of the question, 325 and hope that in the event of the Bill reaching the Statute Book it will do so in a satisfactory and workmanlike form. With that object, and in view of what noble Lords have said this afternoon, I think the House will agree that it is desirable that a reasonable interval should elapse between the Second Reading and the Committee stage of the Bill, in order that any points which the promoters desire to consider can be properly dealt with beforehand.