HL Deb 26 July 1937 vol 106 cc961-6

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Superannuation funds]:

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL) moved, in subsection (3), to leave out "prepare" ["prepare and submit… a scheme"] and insert "make." The noble Lord said: I think I ought to explain to your Lordships that the Government Amendments to this and other clauses—with the exception of those relating to military service, registrars and library committees, with which I shall deal separately—are really drafting Amendments or Amendments put in to clarify provisions of the Bill which did not appear to be sufficiently clear. Following on the conclusion of the Committee stage in another place the Amendments made at that stage were circulated to the local authority associations concerned and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State authorises me to state that those Amendments and the Government Amendments now proposed have been examined and agreed by the local authority associations. The first Amendment is purely drafting and I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 36, leave out ("prepare") and insert ("make").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to,

Clause 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 [Contributory employees]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

There is a drafting Amendment to this clause. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 30, at end insert ("and to the provisions of Part III of this Act relating to officers appointed in a temporary capacity").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4 agreed to.

Clause 5:

Power to admit employees of statutory undertakers, and registration officers.

(8) This Act shall not apply to any registrar of births, deaths and marriages if he gives notice, in the case of a registrar holding office at the appointed day not later than the appointed day or, in the case of a registrar appointed to that office after the appointed day within one month after the date of such appointment, that he so desires.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

There is a drafting Amendment to this clause. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 8, line 35, leave out ("thirty-six") and insert ("one hundred and ten").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

The next Amendment is also drafting. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 8, line 36, leave out ("1932") and insert ("1937").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved to leave out subsection (8) and insert: (8) This Act shall not apply to any registrar of births, deaths and marriages holding office at the appointed day, if within one month after such appointed day he gives notice in writing to the council of the county or large burgh within which the whole or the greater part of his registration area is situate, that he so desires. The noble Lord said: Provision is made in Clause 5 whereby registrars of births, marriages and deaths are enabled for the first time to be included in local authority superannuation schemes. The Amendment is designed to secure that while existing registrars have an option to remain out of the scheme the option shall not extend to those appointed after the appointed day. The Amendment has been agreed with the local authority associations and the Association of Registrars of Scotland.

Amendment moved— Page 9, line 26, leave out subsection (8) and insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 6 to 11 agreed to.

Clause 12:

Reckoning of contributing and non-contributing service, and service of persons indirectly employed.

(3) In the case of a contributory employee who left the employment of a local authority in order to serve in His Majesty's forces or forces of the allied or associated powers during the late war, the period during which he so served shall be taken into account for the purposes of the last preceding subsection as if it had been a period of service within the meaning of this Act: Provided that, in the case of an employee who, after the eleventh day of November, nineteen hundred and eighteen, voluntarily extended his term of service in the forces, no period of such service during any such extension shall be taken into account.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved, in the proviso in subsection (3), to leave out all words after "Provided that" and insert "no such service after the thirty-first day of December, nineteen hundred and twenty, shall be taken into account." The noble Lord said: This is an Amendment to which reference was made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State on Third Reading in another place. As already explained to your Lordships by the noble Viscount, Lord Gage, in moving a corresponding Amendment on the English Bill, it is designed to meet the point that certain municipal employees may not have been able to return to their municipal work after serving with the forces by Armistice Day, the date mentioned in the clause. Although the clause as it stands would probably have covered the case of a man who was not demobilised until some later date, the proviso would have prevented the reckoning for superannuation purposes of any period subsequent to that date in which the man continued to serve with the forces as a result of voluntary extension of his service. It is felt that doubts may well arise as to the exact circumstances in which a man did continue with the forces and it might be difficult to establish whether his continuance was in fact a "voluntary extension" or not. It has been thought desirable to remove these doubts by substituting a later date and removing the reference to "voluntary extension." The date selected is that which was agreed by the Treasury for Civil Service purposes and should, it is thought, be a sufficient extension of the period laid down in the Bill to meet all cases which ought equitably to be covered.

Amendment moved— Page 18, line 36, leave out from ("that") to the end of line 40, and insert ("no such service after the thirty-first day of December, nineteen hundred and twenty, shall be taken into account").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 12, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 13 and 14 agreed to.

Clause 15 [Teachers]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

There is a consequential Amendment to this clause. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 20, line 34, leave out ("1935") and insert ("1937").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 15, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 16 and 17 agreed to.

Clause 18 [Actuary's certificates and periodical valuation of superannuation fund]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

There is a drafting Amendment to this clause. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 26, line 10, after ("shall") insert ("within three months after receiving the valuation and report").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 18, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

First Schedule:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved in Part I ("Local authorities whose whole-time officers are to be compulsorily superannuable") to insert "A committee appointed for the purposes of the Public Libraries (Scotland) Acts, 1887 to 1920." The noble Lord said: This Amendment is designed to place all library officials on a uniform basis in regard to superannuation. In counties such officials are directly employed by the county council and would automatically come within a superannuation scheme. The position is different in burghs where such officials are normally employed by a Library Committee appointed under the Libraries (Scotland) Acts. The Amendment, by securing that officials in the employment of library committees automatically come within the scheme, will facilitate transfers within the library service. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 41, line 12, at end insert: ("A committee appointed for the purposes of the Public Libraries (Scotland) Acts, 1887 to 1920").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

The next is purely a drafting Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 41, line 25, leave out ("1935") and insert ("1937").—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

First Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Second Schedule [Provisions as to asylum employees]:

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL moved to add to the Schedule: 4. Where the fund out of which the remuneration of an asylum employee was or is paid by the body under which he was or becomes such an employee is not the fund out of which superannuation allowances are paid to such employees, the foregoing provisions of this Schedule shall have effect subject to such modifications as may be prescribed. The noble Lord said: The Bill as it stands makes provision for the ordinary case in which superannuation allowances of asylum employees are paid out of the fund from which their remuneration is paid. The Amendment is designed to cover any cases in which the superannuation of such employees is paid out of a different fund. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 43, line 35, at end insert the said new pargaraph.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Second Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining Schedule agreed to.