HL Deb 07 May 1936 vol 100 cc869-74

Amendments reported (according to Order).

Clause 1:

Appointment of examiners, etc.

1.—(1) Not later than the appointed day the Electricity Commissioners shall appoint and thereafter keep appointed a sufficient number of competent and impartial persons as meter examiners who shall have such powers and duties as are conferred or imposed upon them by this Act in relation to meters, and such meter examiners shall comply with any directions given by the Electricity Commissioners as to the exercise and performance of their powers and duties.

(4) Subject as hereinafter provided, meter examiners appointed under this Act shall have the powers and duties in relation to meters which are conferred or imposed on electric inspectors by Sections thirty-six, fifty, fifty-one and fifty-seven of the Schedule of 1899 and such powers and duties shall cease to be exercised by electric inspectors accordingly, and the said Sections fifty, fifty-one and fifty-seven shall have effect in relation to meters as if references to a meter examiner appointed under this Act were substituted for references to an electric inspector:

Provided that this subsection shall, in its application to the Administrative County of London, have effect as if for the words "fifty-one and fifty-seven" in each place whore those words occur in this subsection, there were substituted the words "and fifty-one."

LORD ELTISLEY moved, in subsection (1), to leave out "have such powers and duties as are conferred or imposed upon them by this Act in relation to meters" and insert "be charged with the examination and certifying of meters used or intended to be used in connection with the supply of electricity by authorised undertakers." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment should be read with the first part of the Amendment to Clause 5, page 5, line 5, relating to the certifying and examination of meters which are hereby repealed. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 9, leave out from ("shall") to ("and") in line 11 and insert the said new words.—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD ELTISLEY

My Lords, the next Amendment in my name is drafting. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 25, after ("officer") insert ("or servant").—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD ELTISLEY moved, in subsection (4), to leave out "thirty-six." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this also is a drafting Amendment, and is consequent upon the first Amendment which has already-been carried. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 7, leave out ("thirty-six").—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD ELTISLEY moved, in subsection (4), after "inspector," to insert "under the Special Order, to an electric inspector appointed under the Special Order or to an electric inspector." The noble Lord said: My Lords, this also is a drafting Amendment. The inspectors are appointed either by the Electricity Commissioners or by local authorities.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 13, after ("inspector") insert the said words.—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2 [Apparatus for meter testing, etc.]:

LORD ELTISLEY

My Lords, the two Amendments down on the Paper in my name to Clause 2 are drafting. I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 3, line 21, leave out ("them") and insert ("the parties")

leave out ("were") and insert ("are").—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 3:

Transitional provisions as to existing meters.

3.—(1) Subject as hereinafter provided, every meter to which this section applies shall be deemed for all purposes to be a proper meter for ascertaining the value of the supply, and the register of any such meter shall be evidence, but not conclusive evidence, of that value, and the Schedule of 1899 shall apply in relation to any such meter as aforesaid as if it were a certified meter within the meaning of that Schedule:

Provided that Section fifty-seven of the said Schedule shall not apply in relation to any meter to which this section applies.

(2) This section shall apply to every meter installed on the premises of an ordinary consumer for the purpose of ascertaining the value of the supply, being a meter which has been installed on those premises for that purpose before the appointed day (except any meter which is a certified meter within the meaning of the Schedule of 1899, or is the subject of a special agreement between the consumer and the undertakers), but shall cease to apply to any meter at the time when it is first disconnected and removed after the beginning of the appointed day, or at the expiration of ten years from the beginning of that day, whichever first occurs, except in so far as it may be material to adduce the reading of the register of the meter as evidence of the value of the supply in any previous period.

(3) In this section the expression "the value of the supply" has the same meaning as in the Schedule of 1899.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH) had an Amendment on the Paper to omit the words "but not conclusive evidence" from subsection (1). The noble Earl said: My Lords, instead of moving the Amendment which is down on the Paper in my name I should like to substitute for it the following Amendment: After the word "but," insert "save where the consumer has proceeded under subsection (2) of this section, and there is a final and binding decision under that subsection." I beg to move the Amendment in that form.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 1, after ("but") insert ("save Where the consumer has proceeded under subsection (2) of this section and there is a final and binding decision under that subsection").—(The Earl of Plymouth.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH moved to insert after subsection (1):

"(2) Where any difference arises between any consumer and any authorised undertakers as to whether a meter to which this section applies (whether belonging to the consumer or to the undertakers) is or is not in proper order for correctly registering the value of the supply or as to whether that value has been correctly registered in any case by such a meter, then, if the consumer desires that the difference should be determined under this subsection, he may serve a written notice to that effect upon the undertakers, and in that event the difference shall be determined by such meter examiner appointed under this Act as may be designated by the Electricity Commissioners and the meter examiner may also direct by which of the parties the costs of and incidental to the proceedings before him shall be paid, and his decision shall be final and binding on all parties:

Provided that the preceding provisions of this section shall in their application to the Administrative County of London have effect as if for any reference in those provisions to a meter examiner appointed under this Act there were substituted a reference to an electric inspector within the meaning of the Schedule of 1899, or, where the local authority are the consumers, to an inspector appointed by the Electricity Commissioners."

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this Amendment requires a word or two of explanation but I will not detain your Lordships more than a minute or two. Under the existing law any consumer who desires to dispute the accuracy of his meter, provided the meter is, as the law assumes it to be, a properly certified meter, can apply to the Electricity Commissioners for the appointment of an electric inspector, who thereupon examines the meter and gives a decision which is final and binding on both the consumer and the supply undertaking. Similarly a supply undertaking which desires to dispute the accuracy of a meter can apply for the appointment of an inspector. Owing to the fact that a very large proportion of the meters installed in ordinary domestic consumers' premises have not in fact been certified, and therefore are not strictly meters at all, this right of the consumer to demand a simple and inexpensive test has become ineffectice. The present Bill deals with these uncertified meters and allows them to be admitted in evidence in any Court proceedings.

If this Bill became law as at present drafted, the position would be that any dispute with regard to these uncertified meters, whether raised by the consumer or by the undertaking, would have to be taken into Court. As far as the undertaking is concerned which is responsible for the installation of these uncertified meters, we think that this course is only right and proper, but it would appear reasonable that the consumer in whose house an uncertified meter has, through no fault of his own, been installed, should have the right to have this meter tested by an examiner if he so desires without prejudice to the right to take the dispute into Court. This Amendment gives to the consumer an option to demand that his meter shall be tested by an examiner instead of leaving him under the necessity of starting proceedings in Court. If an Amendment to this effect is not carried, many consumers who desire to have their meters tested would hesitate to start proceedings in Court and would instead accept the supply undertaking's contentions. With that explanation I hope your Lordships will be prepared to accept the Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 7, at end insert the said new subsection.—(The Earl of Plymouth.)

LORD ELTISLEY

My Lords, I welcome this Amendment. It gives further protection to the consumers.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH had given Notice of two Amendments to subsection (2), namely, to insert (a) after "as far as," and to add to the subsection the words: or (b) the meter may be the subject of proceedings under subsection (2) of this section.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, I do not propose to move the next two Amendments on the Order Paper, but I want to substitute for them the following Amendment: On page 4, in line 20, leave out from "material" to the second "the" in line 21, and insert "for the purposes of any proceedings (including proceedings under subsection (2) of this section) to determine whether or not the meter has correctly registered." It is really a drafting Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 20, leave out from ("material") to the second ("the") in line 21 and insert ("for the purposes of any proceedings (including proceedings under subsection (2) of this section) to determine whether or not the meter has correctly registered").—(The Earl of Plymouth.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE EARL OF PLYMOUTH moved an Amendment to make subsection (3) read as follows: In this section the expression 'consumer' and 'the value of the supply' have respectively the same meanings as in the Schedule of 1899.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is also a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 23, leave out from the first ("the") to ("as") in line 24 and insert ("expressions 'consumer' and 'the value of the supply' have respectively the same meanings).—(The Earl of Plymouth.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4 [Definitions]:

LORD ELTISLEY

My Lords, my Amendment to this clause is simply a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 38, leave out ("the") and insert ("any").—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5 [Short title, citation and extent]:

LORD ELTISLEY moved, after subsection (1), to insert: (2) In subsection (1) of Section thirty-six of the Schedule of 1899 the words 'the certifying and examination of meters' are hereby repealed, and so much of Section fifty-seven of the said Schedule as makes provision with respect to the appointment and functions of an inspector in a case where the local authority are the consumers shall cease to have effect except in relation to the Administrative County of London.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, under the Bill which we are now considering no local authority can appoint meter examiners. These appointments will be made by the Electricity Commissioners. Therefore this provision under the Act now becomes redundant. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 5, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Eltisley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.